Now, in my opininon if i were to start programming i would start with a version of BASIC (who many are there now!!), and then move onto something like Java. When you have mastered (i use that term lightly as no-one can truely master a language.. i think!!) it then move onto to C/C++.

I went straight for C/C++, and picked up so many bad habits, but Java teaches you how to properly construct your code and stops you getting into bad habits.

Am i alone here, or do other people agree.

--D-SIPL

What kinds of bad habits are you referring to that Java helps you avoid that C/C++ doesn't?

Brian

I still think that Java is more sructured and is a good starting point for any programmer.

--D-SIPL

no pointers is probably the strongest guarantor of security that lies embedded into the Java language. There being no pointers means that there isn't a peice of a Java program that is anonymous. Meaning every data structure and fragment of code has a handle that makes it fully traceable.

Hope this helps (I'm not trying to convert anyone to java.. honest!!)

--D-SIPL

You said "The main bad habit is that C++ allows you not to encapsulate types". Since I don't know Java, I cannot adequately debate the pros and cons of C++ vs. Java. However, I don't see how that is a bad habit. I think it is more a matter of style, and sometimes of necessity, to determine when to encapsulate or not. I often avoid encapsulation on purpose, not because of a bad habit, but because of convenience (eg. encapsulating a x,y coordinate is overkill in my opinion) or because of a speed improvement (calling constructors/destructors unnecessarily in critical loops, etc, are going to slow things down). But again, I don't know Java so maybe these are not even an issue there.

You said "no pointers is probably the strongest guarantor of security that lies embedded into the Java language. There being no pointers means that there isn't a peice of a Java program that is anonymous. Meaning every data structure and fragment of code has a handle that makes it fully traceable." I have no idea what you are talking about.

Brian

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[This message has been edited by Briant (edited August 10, 2001).]

Disadvantages of Java...

1. No unsigned data types. Makes something like modifiying an image buffer really inefficient.
2. No preprocessor. Means you can't easily setup a debug build as you would with "#ifdef DEBUG ..."
3. Forced encapsulation slows down simple structures.
4. Automatic assignment of new variables, again slows things down.
5. No optional default values for function parameters.
6. No printf().
7. No variable number of parameters for writing custom printf routines.
8. No concept of hardware. Your program is limited to the realm of the virtual machine, so you can't do things like change the screen resolution.
9. No inline functions.
10. No global variables.
11. Though there is support for OpenGL, there will never be any support for DirectX.
12. Javabyte code is easily decompiled.
13. No pointers or ability to manipulate an array as a single block of memory.
14. No static data for functions - ie. variables within a function which retain their values through all function calls.

Advantages of Java...
1. Portable.

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[This message has been edited by rowanseymour (edited August 13, 2001).]

--D-SIPL

-Since I don't know anything about how the handles work, and Java doesn't use pointers, I've been having problems making custom data structures. I can get them to work, but I know that they are far from being efficient; they're really hackish.

-I'm using an older piece of Symantec's Cafe - which means I don't have any of the stuff that I'd like.

DirectX? I hate it. I can't get a simple 2D app going properly. Not to mention that it won't work with Linux. Tried it, gave up. I'm making much faster progress with Java. I even got threads working, even though I have never worked with them in C++.

Also, any advice on how to use data structures in Java? How do I work with the handles?

One more thing: Anybody know how to pass or share information between threads?

I have been using Java for about 2 years, C/C++ for 3.

If you want a child thread to share data with its creator / parent, just construct it with a reference to the creator.

If you want to share data between child threads, just use static data.

MyThread t = new MyThread(this);

class MyThread extends Thread
{
static variable...

MyThread(Object parentObj) { ... }

synchronized void setVariable() { ... }

synchronized ... getVariable() { ... }
}

Using the synchronized keyword ensures only one thread at a time can execute that function. It also can be applied to any code block.

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[This message has been edited by rowanseymour (edited August 16, 2001).]

8. No concept of hardware. Your program is limited to the realm of the virtual machine, so you can't do things like change the screen resolution. Wrong.. the company i work for, we program investment software, and we utilise the screen resolutions for people with dual monitors.

12. Javabyte code is easily decompiled.- only if it not encrypted. We have a lot of rivals in our market, and we wouldn't risk letting our source code get out!!

Like i said i don't want an argument.. you are correct on a lot of points, but the whole point of me posting, was to put across the point that i think java is easier to learn than C/C++.

Hope this helps

--D-SIPL

[This message has been edited by D-SIPL (edited August 18, 2001).]