Does man really know who he is? In the daytime, he is guided by sight and what he sees. His attention is preoccupied by his own thoughts/desires, by the thoughts/desires of others, by work, by the commute, friends, family, church, politics, education, etc. etc. Seriously, if God was trying to communicate with man, when is there a good time, when man is not pre-occupied with the world. About the only good time is when man is asleep, where everything is shutdowned and the spirit is freed from the limitations of the flesh.

Why does man not remember his dreams? Well, for one, he is not thinking like when he is awake. Thinking gives a sense of past-present-future thus memory. Just because we do not remember does not mean nothing real is happening.

The problem which I have with dreams is that its a poor way of communicating and extremely difficult to understand. To a degree, a person is losing free will, because he may not be conscious that he is being influenced. Thats one reason why I always pray for protection.

As I understand it, in the daytime we feed our body with food, drink, learning, etc. But, all of this is mostly physical. I believe that we have a soul which most be feed also that the soul is feed at night. Afterall, does man really know all the reasons why life here on earth must sleep, why the planets revolve around the sun, etc?

Remember the old expression "if you had a problem, then sleep on it". People deep down knew that this was the best time to deal with them.

However, honestly I believe that ideally man should be able to communicate with God and His angels fully awake, fully conscious. Hmmm... to live every moment in communion. Yup... that would be ideal. However, man mostly knows the flesh.

St. Cheez

[This message has been edited by Saint Cheez (edited July 02, 2001).]

First, I suspect that man is able to bypass the law of physics, time-space, etc. in dreams. I think that this may be actually natural for man... if he is actually a spiritual being, a son of God. However, I know some people do not like to have weird experiences particularly in their dreams and prefer restful sleep which is fine.

Second, I suspect that some dreams just had to do with life here on earth, like the king who dreamed about the famine which would hit Egypt at a future time. Apparently Joseph(?) interpreted these dreams, which I do fine rather amazing. Yes, prophecy was very important in those days and afterwards.

Third, the Bible states originally that God communicated directly with man or Adam before the flood. God appeared to start communicating to man in dreams after the flood. Is it possible that man got so grossly physical that he was no longer able to commune well in the spirit? Hmmmm... well, if that was true then why was Abraham able to see the messengers of God? Well, actually by that time even some priests were not able to see these messengers of God anymore. Supposedly, only Moses was able to talk to God face-to-face. If I remember correctly, God stated that for others He would communicate in dreams and prophecies rather than directly.

Well, regardless if God actually sealed (cutoff?) communicating new knowledge to man in dreams, I still tend to get weird dreams. I will take a recent example. In the dream, early Monday morning, I was approaching my boss and fearful, because I would have to explain why I lost the kid. In my dreams, I have a tendency to take the place of others. It took me years to realize that some of these dreams did not directly relate to me. On Wednesday (3 days later), I approached my boss, and asked him if someone on Monday had lost a kid. At first, he looked perplexed, then suddenly remembered something. Yes, he had been on a scott camping trip with his son on Monday. The leader of the troop took the kids to a cliff. After returning, the leader realized he had forgotten the boss's son. My boss had been really pissed-off that a responsible adult could loss a kid. Pretty remarkable coincidence.

If we are actually dual, both flesh and spirit, then the spirit really should not have trouble with time-space or the law of physics. If there is only one God who is Spirit, then is it possible that we are all basically one spirit, that we can actually be in the shoes of others so to speak. I tend to believe that here on earth, we feel separate and distinct (I and you relationship), but maybe in spirit there is less and less distinction between I-and-you; there is only one Spirit, one God actually. Of course, I am only speculating. Over the years, I tried to understand better these weird experiences, thus all my speculations.

However, to be honest, talking intelligently about "things" which we can not see seems impossible to me. There is no way to really prove it.

best wishes,

St. Cheez

I remember how one priest preached that YHSVH hide food inside his robes, and that was how he feed 5,000 folks, yup, just like a magician. He took a miracle and downgraded it to just plain ordinary. Actually, it was rather pathetic. People just deny and make everything ordinary. The Bible stated that dreams were important. Now, people say dreams are no longer needed. The Bible stated miracles, and people deny them. There supposedly once existed angels. I guess people will deny them also. Yup, the people who want to believe are just not getting feed anymore. Yup, this is definitely a faithless generation.

St. Cheez

Then shut up about it, already.

Can we stop this now, I am sick to death of it. I doubt you've tried to understand a word I've said, as you've never addressed my main point on this topic and instead gone all high and mighty and called me faithless because I don't agree with your approach.

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Saint Cheez, allow me to be blunt. You are plain stupid.

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Well, MeanManOfOz, that was definitely an intelligent argument. "You idea is stupid or you are stupid". You sure have a way with words.

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I have stated several times that the issue is not if you had a divinely inspired dream or not,

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In the example which I gave, I did not state the dream was divinely inspired. In other words, you are no longer listen, and have already made up you mind, which is also called pre-judgment. I called it a coincidence. From this, I determined that I am part flesh and part spirit. Maybe because I said that I am also spirit, that you decided that I claimed the dream was divinely inspired. I have not. However, I did mention stuff about the Bible or dreams in the bible.

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the issue is the wisdom of telling everyone you meet every time you have a dream you consider to be such.

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I did not say it was divinely inspired but rather a coincidence. Look, MeanManOfOZ, I know that you have already made up your mind about dreams. You have a right to the way you believe and feel. I have a right to believe, feel and think whatever. Personally, I believe that a closed mind does not allow wisdom in, but then thats my opinion.

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Take any great person from the Bible and tell me if it is recorded that they had such dreams over and over again, or if it seems to be something that occured now and again.

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I think Joseph did, but it almost got him killed for talking about it. Caused some brothers to get abit jealous and angry.

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Now tell me if telling the world about something you dreamed that happened to your boss is glorifying God or yourself, and of what worth it is to the people you tell it to.

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Well, I was trying to explain the weird experience that maybe man is both flesh and spirit. If man is also spirit, why should that offend you? At least for me the idea that I am also spirit gives me hope that I will continue to live as spirit after the body dies, and that God exists, because God is Spirit. Why should this offend you?

I am not trying to glorify myself. I truly believe that being spirit should be a normal experience, even for alot of people it is not. In my opinion, so long as man identifies with the flesh, the spirit in man will be starved to death especially in these modern times.

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Then shut up about it, already.

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Dear, MeanManOfOz, you seem to get offended very easily about stuff I call speculations. Are you threatened by what I say? Are you afraid you may lose your faith? Be courageous. Do not worry about what others may say or speculate on. Just worry about your self and your own life. Are you always going to tell people to shut up, because what they say offends you.

Obvious, the stuff I bring up causes you alot of grief. You have free will. Change the channel. Skip the post. Post your own post. Think and speak your own thoughts and beliefs. Why worry about what I say? You are basically the only person here responding to my posts. See, I am not having any influence on anyone.

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Can we stop this now, I am sick to death of it. I doubt you've tried to understand a word I've said, as you've never addressed my main point on this topic and instead gone all high and mighty and called me faithless because I don't agree with your approach.

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Why not post a post? Talk about your prophecies and intrepretations inspired by the Holy Spirit. I will certainly try to understand you. I do not believe that I am closed minded. OK, I admit that I am not into speaking in tongues, but I have no problem with you worshiping this way. The truth is that I don't think I can do it. Well, if that is proof to you that I am not guided by the Holy Spirit and what I say is crap, then I will learn to live with that judgment. However, I will continue with my journey, as I really would like to learn, grow and believe.

Best wishes,

St. Cheez

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Look, MeanManOfOZ, I know that you have already made up your mind about dreams. You have a right to the way you believe and feel. I have a right to believe, feel and think whatever. Personally, I believe that a closed mind does not allow wisdom in, but then thats my opinion.

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More proof that you're ignoring what I say. Why ?

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Take any great person from the Bible and tell me if it is recorded that they had such dreams over and over again, or if it seems to be something that occured now and again.
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I think Joseph did, but it almost got him killed for talking about it. Caused some brothers to get abit jealous and angry.

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Good example, I believe he had two dreams and went on to interpret a few as well. Not a high score for a guy known for his association with dreams, proof that my point is correct. There are a lot of references to people having dreams in the Bible, but no references to people who have a new message every few nights, or even every year.

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Why not post a post? Talk about your prophecies and intrepretations inspired by the Holy Spirit. I will certainly try to understand you. I do not believe that I am closed minded. OK, I admit that I am not into speaking in tongues, but I have no problem with you worshiping this way. The truth is that I don't think I can do it.

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You can't but God will give you the abilith if you ever take time on your journey to actually obey the Gospel and ask Him.

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God"

YHSVH answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods', to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Thanks,

St. Cheez

[This message has been edited by Saint Cheez (edited July 03, 2001).]

A quotation from Ps 82:6. Technically the Psalms are not part of the OT "law" (which usually referred to the five books of Moses), but occasionally the term "law" was applied to the entire OT, as here. The problem in this verse concerns the meaning of Jesus' quotation from Ps 82:6. It is important to look at the OT context: the whole line reads, "I say, you are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you." Jesus will pick up on the term "sons of the Most High" in 10:36, where he refers to himself as the Son of God. The psalm was understood in rabbinic circles as an attack on unjust judges who, though they have been given the title "gods" because of their quasi-divine function of exercising judgment, are just as mortal as other men. What is the argument here? It is often thought to be as follows: if it was an OT practice to refer to men like the judges as gods, and not blasphemy, why did the Jewish authorities object when this term was applied to Jesus? This really doesn't seem to fit the context, however, since if that were the case Jesus would not be making any claim for "divinity" for himself over and above any other human being-and therefore he would not be subject to the charge of blasphemy. Rather, this is evidently a case of arguing from the lesser to the greater, a common form of rabbinic argument. The reason the OT judges could be called gods is because they were vehicles of the word of God (cf. 10:35). But granting that premise, Jesus deserves much more than they to be called God. He is the Word incarnate, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world to save the world . In light of the prologue to the Gospel of John, it seems this interpretation would have been most natural for the author. If it is permissible to call men "gods" because they were the vehicles of the word of God, how much more permissible is it to use the word "God" of him who is the Word of God?

Well, looking at it in the context of this chapter, these Jews are apparently trying to kill YHSVH, because they believe that he committed blasphemy by saying that he was God. I guess that they were not looking at the expression as interpreted in your footnote. Sounds like they understood his words in the literal sense.

Now, if you had not looked up this interpretation, what would have been your interpretation? Would you understand it literally that men are gods?
Would you have any problems with this interpretation in a literal sense of the words? If so, why would you disagree with the literal meaning of the statement?

Thanks,

St. Cheez

[This message has been edited by Saint Cheez (edited July 03, 2001).]

I suspect that he did mean what he said literally. First, they definitely took him literally and wanted to kill him for what he said. Second, he did not say "wait...dont throw rocks and kill me. I did not mean literally 'I am God' or 'I am god'. Instead I meant that I am a judge just like you are a judge who normally called 'god'. So, I am just like you, so do not throw the rocks."

Do you think that these verses should be corrected just incase people take it literally and believe they are gods or sons of God? Maybe then they could avoid committing blaspheme.

Anyway, it sounds like he is being literal. He did not deny it. He stated that the Bible states you are gods, and that as you know the Bible is true. So, if you are gods, then why can not I say I am God's Son. You are god, and I am god, so whats the problem.

Please explain why you feel that man is clearly not god? I realize that this is clear to you, but can you do it for my benefit? Yes, that is true, man was made in the image of God.

Thanks

St. Cheez

[This message has been edited by Saint Cheez (edited July 03, 2001).]

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So, if YHSVH said this literally, then you do not agree with what he said.
I suspect that he did mean what he said literally. First, they definitely took him literally and wanted to kill him for what he said. Second, he did not say "wait...dont throw rocks and kill me. I did not mean literally 'I am God' or 'I am god'. Instead I meant that I am a judge just like you are a judge who normally called 'god'. So, I am just like you, so do not throw the rocks."

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You'll note the translators understood a differentiation in the terms by their use of capilisation. Jesus was clearly God, you and I clearly are not. You can wrestle with the interpretation of this verse all you like, it won't change either fact.

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Do you think that these verses should be corrected just incase people take it literally and believe they are gods or sons of God? Maybe then they could avoid committing blaspheme.

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No, the Bible should not be creatively corrected, it should simply be understood in context.

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Anyway, it sounds like he is being literal. He did not deny it. He stated that the Bible states you are gods, and that as you know the Bible is true. So, if you are gods, then why can not I say I am God's Son. You are god, and I am god, so whats the problem.

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I note you think Jesus is god with a small g ?

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Please explain why you feel that man is clearly not god? I realize that this is clear to you, but can you do it for my benefit? Yes, that is true, man was made in the image of God.

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Please create a universe for me, and I will accept you are God.

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Not sure why I continue with this, but....

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I think you called it "scriptual encouragement".

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You'll note the translators understood a differentiation in the terms by their use of capilisation.

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That is true. In the context of the verses, the Jews were ready to kill him for saying I am God's son. Apparently, they took him literally. He of course does not deny this. Seems like he was appealing to their reason by bringing up the scriptures, but they just are not listening to him on this point. He only repeats the very thing that they did not want to hear, because they considered it blasphame.

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Jesus was clearly God, you and I clearly are not. You can wrestle with the interpretation of this verse all you like, it won't change either fact.

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This has been one of my biggest complaints about present day churchs. If YHSVH is only God and not also a man like myself, then his message really does not apply to me. Thus, only YHSVH can survive death, because he was different from the rest of us; he is God. In fact, if I remember correctly, there were some who taught that he was not man, and he really did not die on the cross... therefore the resurrection never really happened. That kind of preaching effectively destroys that one great event why people became Christians.

When I studied the differences between the terms Son of God and Son of Adam (man), I started to realized that the terms may be equal in important. What the difference? Well, if you say you are the son of Adam, your life is spared. If you say you are son of God, your life is taken by man.

And, if YHSVH prayed "Our Father in heaven", when you say my Father in heaven, you are implying that you are His son, otherwise why call God your Father.

I always found it interesting for people to call themselves Christians, yet at the same time deny many of the things he taught including the triune God "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

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Do you think that these verses should be corrected just incase people take it literally and believe they are gods or sons of God? Maybe then they could avoid committing blaspheme.
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No, the Bible should not be creatively corrected, it should simply be understood in context.

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Man should not correct it, but they have. For instance, in Genesis, they translated ELOHIM YHVH into Lord God so that it would sound like one God even though it stated "we" and "us". This was to avoid the suggestion of pantheism (many gods), because Mose taught that the worship of the one true God. Thats one reason why some Christians even today disagree with YHSVH's "Father, Son and Holy Spirit".

For some reason, Jehovah Witness corrected the Bible where it stated the name of God, "I am that I am", the past, present, future... They confused the passages so badly that it was almost unreadable and not easily understood anymore probably with the intent of covering it up. They corrected the some statements in John like where JHSVH stated before Abraham I am. Well, in their bible, it does not state this anymore. For some reason, they have problems with these "I am" sayings. Can't say for certain why though. People should not have made these types of corrections, but they have done it.

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I note you think Jesus is god with a small g ?

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Whoops, my goof.

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Please explain why you feel that man is clearly not god? I realize that this is clear to you, but can you do it for my benefit? Yes, that is true, man was made in the image of God.
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Please create a universe for me, and I will accept you are God.

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Well, you did not really answer my question. You just stated only that it is clear without being specific. So, you kind of side-stepped the question. But, you have to admit we were "scriptually encourage". We read the verses and tried to understand them. However, I realize that you deny a literal meaning "ye are gods". I am not sure the "you are judges" appeal would have stopped them from trying to kill him, if he continue to say I am God's son. Well, they eventually did kill him.

St. Cheez