Now, why the subject? I have developed a pattern (a habit, perhaps) of visually checking the log files of my site's activities which I receive from my provider, and doing so every morning. My site's rank is somewhere just short of 2,000,000 so it's not an impossible task. I like to think of it as diligence. This morning, when doing so, I discovered an entry in which someone found their way to my site by doing a search on (with the quotes) "who is investigating me". When I did the search myself later, I discovered that my site is the 7th of 7 results in Google. I also found the transcript of a talk by a man who is most likely not a Christian, and whose employment is to defend licensed professionals from losing their licenses. Since it's such a short list of results, I'll let you conduct the search for yourselves.

What I am wondering has been triggered by reading the short form of that transcript (and skimming the long version). It is simply this: what would the Christian response be to the discovery that you are being investigated? I am asking partly because I am not certain that my own tendency would actually be the Christian response. My own tendency would be to help them. I don't see this as a problem. What I see as the problem is my motivation: I wouldn't want to lose my computers (yes, I do have multiple computers: 1 Linux, one currently closeted Amiga, and a few Macs, one of which is skeletal and appears dead ). My thoughts on the matter have ranged from covetousness to Romans 13, and to several other places, but I would appreciate your thoughts as well.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

[This message has been edited by TallBill (edited May 28, 2007).]

Investigated, eh? As they say “drown all the lawyers” hehe. There are so many lawyers these days they trip over each other trying to find someone to squeeze money from. Doesn’t matter if your site or business is 1337 or not, someone is always trying to steal it from you. Ask any rich person, riches do not bring happiness because there is always someone there trying to take it away which then becomes an obsession to defend what you have. Ultimately, keep your nose clean and trust in the Lord to give or take, if someone manages to take, the Lord seems to give better in its place if you ask.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited May 28, 2007).]

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

Or not. Don't we have enough trouble??

Sure we have trouble in this world. But what’s the better witness? What would the LORD have us do?

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

quote:

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Originally posted by TallBill:
What would the LORD have us do?

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Mourn the death of innocence lost at the Fall?

In context, I think that integrity is what He would have us do. If we do no wrong, nobody can condemn us. That's pretty Biblical. If everything I do is legit, then I have nothing to hide from an investigation.

That seems to be the best possible route. It allows for full compliance with the government as well, which is also Biblical last I checked.

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Portal with information on my programming projects and links to my other work

I see nothing in the Bible that says you should actively aid those trying to destroy you. Though I guess you could distort the the story of carrying a soldiers pack 2 miles instead of one to mean that.

I think if you look at Jesus' own trials you'll see that he didn't do anything that wasn't required of him. He didn't compile a list of laws that where written vaguely enough that they could also be used against him, nor did he produce witnesses to speak against him (While they apparently had plenty I'm sure he knew of some more folks that might have something to say.

My basic stance is if the cops ever knock on my door, politely ask to see their subpoena or warrant before giving them anything or saying anything.
I've sen enough law and order to know voluntary information can only get you in trouble.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cohort X:
To be fair, grilled cheese usually has a pretty sort life span.

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Burden of proof or otherwise, I don't really know what I've got to lose if the Man comes looking for me since I'm not at fault. Then again, I don't see what you're saying as being counter-Biblical. This is just the way I would handle such things.

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Portal with information on my programming projects and links to my other work

Say last weekend you just stayed home to watch a movie by yourself. that night there was also a murder at a strip club and a witness sees someone about your height and build, run out covered in blood and jump into a dark car before speeding off. The witness writes down 5 of the numbers on the license plate. You drive a dark blue car, the first 5 numbers on your license plate match what the witness wrote down and you don't have an alibi. Worse yet it turns out the person killed just got the programming job you had also applied for.

How many years do you think it will be before your life is back to normal?

Granted, all of that being true is highly unlikely. However, a lie from someone that's not happy with you for some reason can be just as devastating. Do you remember the Duke Lacrosse Scandal?
Like it says in one of those pages you had us google up. Evidence is much easier to find than truth, so that's what investigators look for.

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Portal with information on my programming projects and links to my other work

[This message has been edited by Cohort X (edited May 29, 2007).]

quote:

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Say last weekend you just stayed home to watch a movie by yourself. that night there was also a murder at a strip club and a witness sees someone about your height and build, run out covered in blood and jump into a dark car before speeding off. The witness writes down 5 of the numbers on the license plate. You drive a dark blue car, the first 5 numbers on your license plate match what the witness wrote down and you don't have an alibi. Worse yet it turns out the person killed just got the programming job you had also applied for.

How many years do you think it will be before your life is back to normal?

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All they have is a possible motive. While you do not have an alibi, you also do not have a lot of blood all over yourself and your clothes, nor are your fingerprints on the murder weapon, since you weren't actually there. Since you are under investigation, and the murder took place at a strip club, they would want to search your home—especially your computer—for pornography. Since you are Christian, they would find nothing of the kind.

So, other than the possible motive, what do they really have? They have no blood, no fingerprints, no pornography. They cannot place you at the scene, and quite probably, they have your hurt reaction to their suspicion that you would ever go to a strip club. The further they look, the less they find, and your assistance could lessen the duration of that journey.

quote:

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I see nothing in the Bible that says you should actively aid those trying to destroy you. Though I guess you could distort the story of carrying a soldiers pack 2 miles instead of one to mean that.

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There are two problems there: First, they are not actively trying to destroy you, they are only looking for evidence (when they don't find any, they do find greener pastures, so to speak, by looking elsewhere); second, the admonition to carry the soldier’s pack two miles instead of one means precisely that, with no distortion at all. What is the soldier’s motive for demanding that a Jew carry his pack at all, other than to lord it over him and ruin his day, especially should it occur on a sabbath, thereby causing the Jew to violate the man-made rules of the religious leaders of the time? Is that not an effort at harm? Yet Jesus commands us to go along with it, and in fact exceed the demand in our service to that soldier. It causes me to wonder, “Is this not the very method by which many Roman soldiers were won to Christ?” Isn't that really the point? Mark 12:31, sacrifice yourself for the sake of, or for the benefit of others.

Cohort, I think you've helped me answer the question, though not as you would have hoped it to be answered.

Thank you.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

If I were living in the states... well lemme rephrase that. The way I do things now is I make sure to sign/encrypt email messages of importance and I use my own mail server, not something like Yahoo or Gmail for anything other than normal chit-chat.
Second if my computers were broken in to (either physically or remotely) my important data would be encrypted and could not be found easily (for instance I used to encrypt my SSN with 4096-bit encryption... now I've got a better way of storing it [aka memorization]). Getting to my point, if I were caught and the security measures I use now aren't enought to prove that I'm innocent or prevent me from being set up... I'd still help them find what they're looking for. It's the most logical thing to do.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

quote:

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Originally posted by TallBill:
All they have is a possible motive. While you do not have an alibi, you also do not have a lot of blood all over yourself and your clothes, nor are your fingerprints on the murder weapon, since you weren't actually there. Since you are under investigation, and the murder took place at a strip club, they would want to search your home—especially your computer—for pornography. Since you are Christian, they would find nothing of the kind.

So, other than the possible motive, what do they really have? They have no blood, no fingerprints, no pornography. They cannot place you at the scene, and quite probably, they have your hurt reaction to their suspicion that you would ever go to a strip club. The further they look, the less they find, and your assistance could lessen the duration of that journey.

[/B]

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Say they find the weapon wiped clean and the bloody clothes set on fire in a trash can. All of the evidence present says that it was you. and an absense of pornography isn't evidence of anything. you don't have to fill your computer with pornography to follow someone to a bar and kill them.

People are convicted without physical evidence all the time. Here's a quick example I googled up. http://forensic-evidence.com/site/ID/bitemark_ID.html
This person was convicted for life and spent more than ten years in prison before evidence showed up proving without a doubt that he didn't commit the crime.

quote:

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second, the admonition to carry the soldier’s pack two miles instead of one means precisely that, with no distortion at all. What is the soldier’s motive for demanding that a Jew carry his pack at all, other than to lord it over him and ruin his day, especially should it occur on a sabbath, thereby causing the Jew to violate the man-made rules of the religious leaders of the time? Is that not an effort at harm? Yet Jesus commands us to go along with it, and in fact exceed the demand in our service to that soldier. It causes me to wonder, “Is this not the very method by which many Roman soldiers were won to Christ?” Isn't that really the point? Mark 12:31, sacrifice yourself for the sake of, or for the benefit of others.

Cohort, I think you've helped me answer the question, though not as you would have hoped it to be answered.

Thank you.
[/B]

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A soldier isn't supposed to be trying to harm the civilian, the law was passed to help the soldiers move from one place to another more quickly to help defend the empire. Logistically, if the soldier needs to travel over two miles the chances are he doesn't know the person and doesn't care to; as he is from hundreds of miles away and is traveling miles from where this person lives. Helping someone to carry a bag or giving them food and shelter is not equivalent giving investigators further evidence to prosicute you with. I'd agree with you if Jesus had said that when asked to carry a soldiers bag one mile you should carry his bag, and if he decides you should also steal some food from your neighbor for him to eat you should do that also. But he didn't.

In fact, even being asked to give them evidence they don't know about is a voilation of the fifth amendment. So by aiding them in that way you are really aiding them in breaking the law.

Say on your computer you've got an email saying "If I don't get this coding position, I don't know what I'll do." You meant financially but all of a sudden it looks like evidence of you being unstable, and their case against you becomes stronger.

[This message has been edited by Cohort X (edited May 29, 2007).]

I'd also do alot of praying and asking God what I should do.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

Unbelievers around us watching our every action? Our every word? Even something as simple as returning the 50c too much change given to us can have a huge impact on someone.