Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
Please discuss without flaming in this often volatile topic. Who really killed Jesus? Discussion open |
jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
I personally don't think it's that productive to argue about who killed him. What really matters is why he died: for our sins. And lets not forget that he rose again ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Yes, there was a purpose, but the answer to “who really killed Jesus” holds significance. Who really killed Jesus? |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
We all did. Certain Romans and certain Jews did the actualy execution, but we're all responsible for His death. |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote:Good reply to the question, Lazarus, I’ll give my answer after more views have been submitted, my answer may be a little different in regards to “who really killed Jesus” compared to yours, but not much different |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Similar to what Laz said.... Why did Jesus die to begin with? Because *all* of our sins. [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 05, 2007).] |
jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
Ah, good. i was hoping this wasn't about pointing fingers as to who's fault it physically was. I agree that ALL of us had a hand in it with our sins. ------------------ |
spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
sinners did that means all men. if didn't sin he wouldn't have had to die JESUS didn't die because he was weak he died because he was strong. he died because of our sins. our sins killed him and GOD raised him from the dead. ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
lol I have a feeling this thread is going have alot of "echo" posts. |
spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
echo ....echoo....echooo..echooooo ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
JeTSpice Member Posts: 433 From: La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA Registered: 06-10-2006 |
The butler did it. ________________________ A word search of "kill" in the Bible yields these results: Acts 3:12 - 15 "Ye men of Israel...killed the Prince of life..." Both implicate the Jews of that time as killing Jesus. Other's similar: Judas betrayed Jesus. Jesus was crucified under Pilate. But what I like to focus on is that Jesus allowed himself to be killed. He was not suicidal, but he gave up his life for us. He had the power to come off the cross, but chose instead to lay down his life. |
Mene-Mene Member Posts: 1398 From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA Registered: 10-23-2006 |
I again echo. JetSpice: Haha! Love ya Son of Adam! I thought it was Mrs. Peacock. ------------------ I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time. |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
Ok so here is my take on it, it was not the Jews, it was not the Romans, it wasn’t really you and I. I do agree though, that the purpose was to redeem you and I and ultimately Israel I will add, still none mentioned were those that really killed Jesus. So who really killed Jesus? Well I’ll paint a picture here as the sun sets in my neck of th ewoods… or country. Genesis 22 1 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!”And he said, “Here I am.” 2 Then He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” An interesting picture, God commanded Abraham to kill his only Son. I think it’s a really good look into what God the Father would actually do one day with His own Son, Jesus. Yes, God the Father killed Jesus. Jesus was the sacrifice, but in this case there was no sparing Him, God the father had to go through with it if he wanted to put the full plan of salvation into action. I mean come on, how could anyone think that anyone in this world could have really killed God the Son? He laid his life down, committed his spirit into the hands of the Father, went into the Earth for three days and nights, then was resurrected by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. But ultimately who really killed Jesus? God the Father. Well I just thought I’d bring this up since this is good Thursday and thus would begin the first night in Earth oh so many years ago. I find it interesting (or alarming) that people such as Mel Gibson and others try to put the blame on the Jews. Yes the purpose was so that Jesus could die for us, but God the Father is the one that really killed Him. |
Cohort X Member Posts: 126 From: The Great Pacific Northwest Registered: 09-16-2006 |
So you're saying it was a suicide. It's a good thing Jesus wasn't catholic. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
Col. Mustard in the Dining Room with the Rope. ------------------ |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
edit [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 07, 2007).] |
bwoogie Member Posts: 380 From: kansas usa Registered: 03-12-2005 |
ahh you should have given me some time to reply... its very easy "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not parish but have everlasting life" John 3:16 Exactly like you said, How God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son is exactly what God would do to his own. However, because of us, the sinners, we caused God to sacrifice his son on the cross. So ultimately it was (and still is) our fault. Thankfully we have a forgiving (and living) God. ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote:Nah, didn't have the movie in mind, more along the lines of his personal comments... *hic*. |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Ah ok, in that case, I ranted for nothing, haha. My apologies |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
quote: Blast! |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
Jesus even said that He laid down His life, no man took it from Him. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
zookey Member Posts: 1902 From: Great Falls, Montana, USA Registered: 04-28-2002 |
quote: Nailed it (pun NOT intended BTW)----I agree whole heartidly--also JesterMax's first post was awesome too. ------------------ |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Yes, Jestermax's, Lazarus's and Bennythebear's first posts are very important. With their answers in mind, and noting that laying down your life and allowing yourself to be killed is not the same as killing yourself, scripture says it was the disbelieving Jews and Romans who killed him (Matt 20:19, Matt 21:38-39, Mark 15:15, Mark 15:25, Luke 24:20, John 19:23, Acts 2:36, Acts 3:12-15, Acts 4:10, Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, 1 Thess 2:14-15). ------------------ Check out this webhost! Fantastic prices, features and support! |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote:And... people don't kill people, guns kill people. |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
I disagree that the Father killed the Son. There is a huge difference between killing someone and allowing that person to be killed by others. Are you saying you disagree with the scriptures I posted? ------------------ Check out this webhost! Fantastic prices, features and support! |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote:I’m implying that they were not the originators of the sentence. Ultimately God the Father made the decision and the Jews and Romans were simply the instruments. When a jury finds a criminal guilty, who passes the sentence of death, the judge, jury or the executioner? The executioner simply carries out the order of the Judge. If it is found later that the judgment was in error, that the person was actually innocent, does the jury track down the executioner? No! for he was not responsible, he simply carried out the order to execute. Ultimately, only God is the judge, not us and not the Jews or Romans, God alone. We the jury found Jesus guilty of our sin… and the Father weighed the findings and with pleasure passed the death sentence by which the Jews and Romans simply were the executioners. |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Sorry, but I still respectfully disagree. We certainly weren't the jury, and they weren't just the executioner following orders. The difference between an executioner and them is that they never heard from the judge - they never heard from God that Jesus was to die for the sins of man - but rather they ignored God and desired that he die for what they believed was blasphemy and opposition of the established religious order. They wanted him to die, they chose that he should die for their own reasons (not God's), and they killed him. God allowed it because it accomplished his purpose despite them not knowing it. ------------------ Check out this webhost! Fantastic prices, features and support! |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
Does not matter what the executioners thoughts were on the matter as far as I‘m concerned, God was in control, it was His call, not the Jews nor the Romans, it was the plan from the beginning and God caused it to happen. Ok so we disagree, I say God the Father ultimately killed Jesus and you say the Jews did it. I’m not referring to the purpose but whom was actually in control over the situation because He/They/Them is the one that killed Him. |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
I think intent and purpose totally matters. Consider an executioner who really dislikes someone and wants to kill them, *but doesn't know that someone of a higher authority has already purposed that the man is to die*. The executioner has his own reasons for wanting the man to die, plots the killing on his own, and carries it out by his own methods, completely unaware of the higher authority's plans. Even though the higher plans have been accomplished, the executioner did not simply perform an authorized execution, he committed a murder and is guilty of such. Yes, God was in control of the situation, but God is in control of all situations - yet we should not say that God rapes women when women get raped, God aborts babies when babies are aborted, God makes men drunk when men get drunk, etc. God allowing something to transpire for his own purposes does not make him the committer of those events. And just to be clear, I do not say "the Jews" in general killed Christ. Only *specific, unbelieving Jews and Romans* of the early first century killed him. ------------------ Check out this webhost! Fantastic prices, features and support! [This message has been edited by BrianT (edited April 07, 2007).] |