Some might disagree but the facts speak for themselves if they look at it all. Fasting in general helps us not to sin and benefits us physically, mentally, and spiritually. “The primary aim of fasting is to make us conscious of our dependence upon God.” Some may ask why but there is a lot of explain why, since if I said you should only then people will not listen, and if I say too little then they will keep asking never ending questions. So I don’t expect people to ask a question or say something silly since it is most likely answered already or on the link if you care to know more. I know the original church seems like another world and not shown for many reasons but here is one small aspect of a tradition that makes you be a better Christian which all saints have done and most do not in todays liberal Christian communities.

“The Bible states that every deprivation and every constraint is precious before God: "...the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force" (Matt. 11:12) Those who audaciously and willfully violate the established fasting rules, are called enemies of the Cross. To them, their God is their stomach and their glory lies in their shame. It is stated in the Psalms: "lost through the stomach."”

Gluttony opens the door to other sins that rot your soul. The opposite of gluttony is fasting; if you have fasting then the other Christian virtues are more accessible. Fasting was one of the 3 virtues and one of the 3 conditions for Adam an eve to not eat from a certain tree. Sin is like the rain that rusts iron to the point that nothing is left or a sad excuse of what is left after purified of all sins.
Fasting has many benefits but even if it didn’t it has the quality of obedience to God to help spiritual growth. All over the scripture we see about fasting from Moses, Daniel, apostles, saints, and even Christ. Even if the bible didn’t state about fasting it still is beneficial and proper to since the church says so as well.

Christ stated that our virtue must be higher than the Pharisees, which even the Pharisees fasted a complete fast. Fasting was already enforced in the Old Testament but Christ came to correct it. Jews fasted to show off and Christ didn’t approve and wanted people to do what is right privately, since if people do it publicly then they do so for other reasons besides God. Fasting is a commandment and Christ, apostles, saints, and the church partakes in it but there must be proper interpretation with the Holy Spirit.

Compared to other sects.
Many cultures fast and so it is in human nature to but when people do not they are doing an unnatural thing since being unhealthy from eating so much junk is not a natural thing and neither is getting things what you want when you want it since it spoils the person.

False hope hurts people.
Obviously the Catholic Church has a form of fasting but that is a 1/2 *** fast as some Catholics have mentioned and very loose with no real structure. Something like not eating your favorite food but eat other bad things which doesn’t serve its purpose. Some Catholics think that they can sin and go every week to church to ask for forgiveness and then they can sin again which is insane.
Muslims have fasting but that kind of fasting is not to eat all day until at night which messes up the body which that is a sin.
Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and other religion fast. Even some atheists fast in there own odd way despite all of them not having beneficial fasting.
Protestants pick up anti Christian secular views or secular man made traditions which have taken it out completely. No wonder why the majority is over weight and taught to go with what they want when they want, and most take advantage of it. Places like McDonalds are doing very well, and that would be bad for business if Christians fasted which protestants are a God send to secularists if the secularists believed in a god. Well sure some Protestant sects fast but it’s not like the fast as it was before the many Christian sects showed up. The actions of protestant leaders like Zwingli, Hennery 8th, and Luther also show grave errors from not fasting or not fasting well which many people follow their religious ideology without knowing them well, which many of their followers would not be pleased with their actions if they knew them well.

Health wise
It is odd that religion gets throw out the window all the time but replaced with others to take their place which is more costly, not as safe, and not as experienced. You have people like Jack Lalanne that fasts all his life but he does it since he knows it's beneficial. His mentor said "Fasting is one of the keys to rejuvenation". But he still is not doing it 100% right.
Some Christians think that the body is nothing but to make the body sin is just as bad since the body's lust leads to sin. The weight loss industry is a multi billion dollar industry, too bad many could have saved their money, got healthier, and healed their soul it they followed the Christ's church to fast so that they can break the cycle and food addiction. Hear disease, cancer, and many other forms of illnesses on the rise come from not fasting. You have many types of groups of people and culture than only go with what they been taught by man made traditions and rules and not with holy tradition and they have many health problems and then they need to ask advice from more secular people. Secular actions just bring more seculars at work which is no wonder secularists have more money than many Christians. What goes in your mouth is a big indicator of your health. Even the age of Orthodox archbishops are always far longer than the average persons life span. Also some people fast and get accustomed to eating healthier.

Other benefits
Spiritual gifts are given because of effort. Having self restraint from eating or lusting you doing what is right and are helping your virtue to not be lead to sin. Fasting can help with other virtue and lead the person further away from sin. No saint became a saint from easting to please their taste buds, living the life of luxury. No one gets spiritual gifts like true love, humility, etc this way. As one saint said fasting give birth to profits. Some people say they have the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit is not strong with people that do not follow Christ properly. Without fasting people follow the words and the logic of Christ’s teachings but will have a limit and not absorb the true spirit of the gospel and remain hidden. Fasting helps in purity and abstinence, to avoid bodily sins, which some protestant sects have rejected the notion of bodily sin. Fasting helps in will power and without will power people become spiritually weak. If people can do something as simple as fast then they can gather the strength to avoid other sins. Fasting helps people to do things in moderation which the bible states. Many rich people want more and more and it’s never enough, you will not see a rich person that wants more and more since they are a slave to their desires since the simple things they need is not enough for them anymore. You even have some pastors that say greed is good which I am shocked to hear. If a Orthodox priest said that they would be excommunicated, but if others do that they get rewarded or they make their own church and have many followers.

The ideology of everything in excess which people get drowned form their too much excess and are not happy and want more and more sine the extreme is not good enough. Idolatry then arrives since people do not practice what they preach since they have real guidance and they every day life influences them more than what the church says. People say they are Christian by words and with some little action but the vast majority are lost because of not holding the traditions that the apostles told us to follow and act like them. Fasting conditions the body and breaks the vain and arrogance of the flesh and the lifestyle. Someone that fasts pushes away luxury to better them selves physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Fasting can teach kids manners to control passions so that you don’t have desires to want silly things. So many people need supervision which if they were properly manners and keep something as simple as fasting other things would come much easier. You don’t have kids complaining in stores that they want this toy or that food or whatever since they are most likely taught to be humble from something as simple as fasting which helps them do other proper Christian things. If people follow and practice the fasting traditions with other Christian teachings of the church you will not most likely see the rampant health problems like how many in the US are in nursing homes or have many health problems. Heart disease was non existent for old people to die from it, but now its one of the top killers. So many think they know it all and ear of lack of nutrition but many have no faith, since they do not even understand what they supports or know the dangers of portion poisoning for example, or how they can not fast because they need milk with their unhealthy coffee, and the list goes on.

You will never a family that follows the strict fasting and have a divorce. You will most likely never have a couple cheat on the other if they are devoted to fasting since someone that does something as simple as fasting would not even go close to adultery. The psychology behind it all is logical but many not understand. Fasting helps a family financially since fruits and vegetables are cheaper than all those junk foods and helps regulate spending. There is a reason why many that fast are better off financially and physically since they practice what they preach. Also the more money they have the more they can donate which is obvious why over 85% of Americans are in debt and don’t have enough for themselves let alone others. Fasting helps the economy and the food quality since when people obtain form the food the companies don’t have to inject so much chemicals to make the animals grow and other injection which they become later on immune to certain injections which other diseases arise, the importing from other country to feed the needs of people which hurts local businesses. Also DWI would go down and Mel Gibson would not be busted for DWI but he doesn’t go by historical accounts as his movie is heavily inaccurate which even the main language was not Latin and ignored the actual facts which the Orthodox stance follows and verified by historians.

If everyone fasted a lot of problems in society would not exist but people want to follow man traditions to do what people want than what God wants and many will defend it despite they have no proof of their actions. For a society to be all about consumption and excess the only future it has is failure since people do not partake in what the early church fathers did want wanted us to do, and all saints have fasted since they know well the benefits of it and dangers of not fasting.

What and when?
Times have changed since in Christ time fasting was to show off by hypocrites, while now fasting is attacked. Obviously many do not understand what kind of fasting since it’s not about starving but not easting certain things like
1. meat;
2. animal products (cheese, milk, butter, eggs, lard, drippings);
3. fish (i.e., fish with backbones);
4. oil (i.e., olive oil) and wine (i.e., all alcoholic drinks).
Also people should try to practice moderation in every day actions and people should ask what Jesus would do in your place. As for when check out the links but 2 days to remember is Wednesday and Friday.

In short you eat when you shouldn’t you loose. Plenty of information about fasting which I only scratched the surface.
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“6:3 Giving no offense in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings;
6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,”
(Remember the word longsuffering.)

“6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
6:18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.”

“5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

““For this kind is expelled only by prayer and fasting” (Matt. 17:21). With these words the Lord Himself indicated to us two kinds of weapons in our combat against our enemy – the dark and evil spirits. At the same time, He indicated to His disciples the need for them to fast at a time “when the Bridegroom shall be taken from them” (Matt. 9:15). The grace of the Holy Spirit is taken away from us through our sins. And its return to us is achieved primarily by means of repentance, assisted by prayer and fasting.”
http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/

“Neglect of bodily discipline makes men like animals who give free rein and scope to their bodily passions... they become subject to gluttony, lust and anger in their crudest forms. (St. Ignatius Brianchaninov in The Arena)”
http://www.sspeterandpauloca.org/bulletin-3-16-03.htm

“With fasting and self-restraint, the body does not rebel as much, we don’t succumb to sleep as much, less empty thoughts invade our mind, and spiritual books are read more eagerly and with greater understanding.”
“Incidentally, there are words of Holy Fathers that tell us we should not be body killers but vice killers.”
“could not drive out the evil spirit in a person, He replied: "Through your unbelief;" and then added: "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting." (Mark 9:29) Apart from this, there are directions in the Scripture that we must observe Wednesdays and Fridays as days of fasting. On Wednesday, Christ was given up for crucifixion and on Friday, He was crucified.”
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/ambrose/fast.shtml

“As we fast from food, let us abstain also from every passion. . .
Let us observe a fast acceptable and pleasing to the Lord.
True fasting is to put away all evil,
To control the tongue, to forbear from anger,
To abstain from lust, slander, falsehood and perjury.
If we renounce these things, then is our fasting true and acceptable to God.
Let us keep the Fast not only by refraining from food,
But by becoming strangers to all the bodily passions.”

“One reason for this decline in fasting is surely a heretical attitude towards human nature, a false 'spiritualism' which rejects or ignores the body, viewing man solely in terms of his reasoning brain. As a result, many contemporary Christians have lost a true vision of man as an integral unity of the visible and the invisible; they neglect the positive role played by the body in the spiritual life, forgetting St. Paul's affirmation: 'Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. . . . glorify God with your body' (I Cor. 6: 19-20).”
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article9199.asp
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/pr_fasting.aspx
http://www.oca.org/ocfasting.asp?SID=8

If you have a question then read the links first to get a better understanding.

Will your soul be big or little? If you think it will be big then you have too much pride and confidence and don’t know what you are up against which will hurt you. Evil works well when people think they are immune, just like a person that thinks he is invincible and stands in front of a moving train.
St. Matthew 5:48 “Be ye perfect”

The threefold cord is not easily broken

Prayer - Fasting - Giving offerings (above the tithe)

"this kind of demon is only cast out with prayer and fasting"

I would want to add, if you are going to go on any kind of total fast that you absolutely seek medical advice before going on a total fast for any length of time. When you do not take in carbohydrates your body will switch to a catabolic metabolism and you will set your body into a metabolic acidotic state, that if not supervised can lead to coma and death. There are many christian doctors who will help supervise both a total fast and a fast where you drink water only.

Also, you should check into how Daniel fasted. . . .

Obviously, but don't worry and let’s not confuse fasting with starvation. Now I am wondering if you read the post. :P
But if you want to talk about loosing weight and healthy here is an older post
Tips on weight loss
http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000701.html
Negative thing about Coffee
http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000787.html

Some monks fast all the time and you can say what they eat is a vegetarian diet to have fruits, veggies, beans, etc.

One research says.
"fasters presented decreased lipoproteins and BMI levels. These re-sults support our hypothesis by highlighting the beneficial influence of Christian Orthodox fasting on li-poprotein profile and prevalence of obesity"

"23% increase in carbohydrates, 17% reduction in total fat, and 43.5%
increase in fiber consumption, whereas the respective per-centages for the controls are +7%, +1%, +1.7% and+3.3%. All the differences found between the two groups are significant."

"supplementary studies have associated religiosity (Orthodoxy) with good health [10]. This has been confirmed in a recent study by Chliaoutakis et al[59], which is the only published work to date which in-vestigates the association between the Orthodox Christian lifestyle and health. Chliaoutakis et al found that devout Orthodox Christians adopt healthier life-styles and that
religion has a substantial impact on mental and physical health-related behaviors. "
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2458-3-16.pdf
Obviously science mostly sides with the original church Christ made which is why not talked about or explained well in the public of of fear of loosing people which people means money and Christianity is a business for many sects and companies. Do you know how much billions many companies would loose if people started to follow what the orthodox church says? There would be an epidemic of poor secularists.

And don't worry about me, I am a jack of all trades.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited February 19, 2007).]

where did you get your information about nursing homes. I have been involved in the medical field about 20 years and have never heard anything like that. do you have an unbiased reference?

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

You really don't need to seek any medical advice before fasting.. If God tells you that you need to fast, you fast.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

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They will know that we are Christians by our love.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
That long you say. Well then why do you talk about carbs when that was not even the issue? Did you have an unbiased reference to what you said? Come on now quit getting off topic. If you can not answer your own question then then you don't need me to answer. If you want anything else off topic PM please!

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Since you have no medical background I will inform you, fasting is about carbohydrate metabolism, only, maybe you should have looked at some medically controlled studies before you started to ramble.

"Well sure some Protestant sects fast but it’s not like the fast as it was before the many Christian sects showed up. "

I get the impression from this statement and many others that you view Protestantism is a collection of misguided "Christian sects." This attitude of disrespect makes it very difficult to take you seriously. You also bash Roman Catholics. It's very disconcerting.

"Spiritual gifts are given because of effort."

I wholeheartedly disagree. If you think I'm wrong, please show me scripture otherwise. The Bible says this: "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, " and so forth. They are gifts that every Christian recieves, period. "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." This is from 1st Corinthians chapter 12.

"Some people say they have the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit is not strong with people that do not follow Christ properly."

The Holy Spirit is not strong? I disagree.

"unhealthy coffee"

Now you are getting personal. Many scientists would disagree with you.

"You will never a family that follows the strict fasting and have a divorce."

Never? Wow, you just solved the problem of all the broken marriages in the world. If they had only fasted.

"Mel Gibson would not be busted for DWI but he doesn’t go by historical accounts as his movie is heavily inaccurate"

You're correct, in the time that Braveheart was depicting, the Scots did not wear kilts. Or by "his movie" did you mean something else?

"The grace of the Holy Spirit is taken away from us through our sins."

Our sins are taken away from us through the grace of the Holy Spirit.

"Apart from this, there are directions in the Scripture that we must observe Wednesdays and Fridays as days of fasting. On Wednesday, Christ was given up for crucifixion and on Friday, He was crucified."

Well, this may a be a tradition for your sect, but I don't see that because those events occurred on those days that we are obligated to observe those particular days for fasting every week. It's a fine tradition, and I'm not bashing it, it's just not my tradition or one that is mandated by the scriptures. Jesus commanded us to remember him and his sacrifice by practicing the sacrament of communion, I don't remember him mentioning anything about fasting twice a week.

“The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” Matthew 11:18-19

So I commended pleasure, for there is nothing good for a man under the sun except to eat and to drink and to be merry, and this will stand by him in his toils throughout the days of his life which God has given him under the sun. Ecclesiastes 8:15

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|steveth45|
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[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited February 21, 2007).]

So it happens from love, from our own desire in the thankfulness towards God's grace.

I hope this example is a blessing to anyone considering fasting, I highly recommend fasting and wouldnt worry about the body too much.

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1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

Steve also said you bash quite a few different groups.. I personally disagree with all of them in some things. Small things, but they are there. Still though, don't go bashing others beliefs until you iron out the wrinkles in yours. I'm sure you could say that Ive done it too, but that still doesnt make it right.

[edit]I think he may have been on the cross until early morning the next day. That would make it Tuesday, not Monday. Im not sure of this.[/edit]

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 21, 2007).]

And yes fasting its not about food only but if you condition yourself with something as simple as food then you can fast from other bad or addicting things that many take for granted and indulge too much in. Fasting from all foods to not eat is not what I am talking about sine that will slow down metabolism so watch out for that.

As for the resurrection it is being fasted which that gets 40 days of fasting. But again read the links and as I said I only gave a little info. If I gave it all then I would write a novel, and you don’t want that. Lol

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited February 21, 2007).]

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

Christ said to follow religious tradition but not to follow man made tradition, since many put there own cultural views in with Christianity. All modern day Christian holy days have been trivialized which do not resemble how they use to be celebrated. Christians don’t care since they say they don’t follow “Christian traditions” since them goes against Christianity they think, but following secular traditions is all right with them.
Even the apostles were part of the church and to many they are heretics in there definitions sine they arkaed in holy traditions and ceremonies. It is no suppressed that Christians take out the tradition of marriage from the church that what god joins no man can separate while many Christians find it ok to get married by a judge that is not a priest or get married at places like a drive though since. God forbid we follow what the early church did since to many Christians the apostles are wrong and we need the logic or assumption from atheists to influence new Christian views.

I think people should read into history more, and the sad thing is that eastern Christianity is never mentioned historically much to non Orthodox countries. Every time I see shows about history of Europe or Christianity it’s mostly about the west Europe only as if the east doesn’t exist. Sometimes they hint a few words but nothing extensive. All people know is one side of the story. There is a lot to know and getting information from protestant or catholic sources is almost non existent or lies. I was upset with the movie the passion how they removed everything orthodox form the movie which went against history and the sad thing is that many will eat it up and did. Its also silly to see that what many Christian sects finally find out that what they do is wrong like forceful conversion, segregation, attacking sovereign nations, assassination, destroying the environment, etc are not understanding that it’s not Christian Christ the Orthodox church and its traditions try to say but are not shown. Even when MLKjr marched you never hear that an Orthodox Archbishop was to the right of him the entire march. To most Christian sects back then that insane or revolutionary in how it was viewed. No wonder the biggest converts to Orthodoxy are from other Christian sects and growing since many know that having things too loose in there religion meaning that they live loose since they have no real guidance.

Anyway I said and the links say plenty reasons why one tradition, the tradition of fasting is good but is anyone strong enough or with the secular commercial make your mouth water for some secularists owned cholesterol fat filled fried food.
LOL I wonder how many people would read this much of the post. O well, in the end not my problem.
hmm maybe I should write a book lol

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Its amazing how you can go on and on and still miss the whole point. Its a gift that not many people have! You never mentioned your ritualistic view on fasting.

You should write a book.. Rather than fill the few minds who come here, you could fill the whole world with religion! Pentecostals believe religion is wrong, but you still might be able to sneak in there too..

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

Sheesh. These threads are...

nvm.

I'll go reply to your other topic after you went off track talking about David Bowie.

Read the info and put it in your own words, maybe u can explain to to everyone.

Laz
What's your real point? lol

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.