General Christian Discussions

Warsong, I have a question - – Lazarus

Lazarus

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about your signature:

"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"

Does this mean we shouldn't try to convert "savages" to Christiany

Second part Are you saying that good intentions are bad in some way?

I've been wondering that for months, just haven't got around to asking you about it.

spade89

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Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
i already asked him that question and he refused to answer that question directly , i hope he answers you this time.

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

jestermax

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i think the second one means that sometimes good intentions can make something worse off then someone trying to do that in the first place.



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I answered that many times. If it goes over your head its not my fault.
Laz
Shouldn't this be a PM message than a entire post? Also why do you have so many posts in such a short time? Anyway what do you think the quote means? It can man many things but don't take things the wrong way even thought seems harsh.

Well I take the saying to mean that when people take an ideology as Christianity they distort it by adding their own culture which every culture compared to Christianity is barbaric. You see people distort Christmas and eater since they mix peoples culture with religious holy day traditions. Do you say thats good? And they have the nerve they have is to attack holy tradition to support man made ones while complaining that they follow the Christian way. Compromising only brings more compromising. Kind of like compromising straight line to be bent and you keep compromising it to be eventually bent to be a circle. That is not progress.

We should try to convert everyone but we should not try take earthy things to heaven or into the religion. More people don't mind giving money to immoral things or silly things every week which goes against them but to give money to the church everyone complains despite it had done more for them and a cheesy movie made by people that don't like them.

As for good intentions, everyone means well, but yeah good intentions are bad sometimes. Even Hitler meant well for his people and look what happen. Even president bush means well but more civilians died than soldiers which the world organizations and countries find that bad. Fanatical Muslims mean well since they believe in god but go over board. Gandhi meant well despite many of his people got killed, and his way now not the right Christian way but he did mean well and tried the best he knows how. Almost every criminal means well but they are all guilty for a reason. No one says they are evil, a crazy person doesn't say they are crazy. Sure you have a rare occasions that some one says they are evil and want to do evil and dont mean well, but evil evil people have a conscious and they also can be psychologically affected by bad actions. People try to lie to themselves that what they do is proper and good to feel better. You see this with the homosexual movement how they don't like to see bad so they try to make their perversions acceptable so that they feel better about their sins since they know deep down that it is not good and many will reject them. The bible is being attacked since you have people that mean well that say that it is sexist, racist, hateful and try to change the definition the way they want so that they feel better since they believe they understand things better. History is altered a lot as well since they want to make people feel eqiual and special since they mean well. Both political parties mean well but both do bad. Most people don't want to do bad but they do what is best for them but in the end they and the other gets hurt. Every you mean well every time but can you say you are perfect? Can you say every time you lie its harmless? Also we have to weigh sometimes bad verses very bad things.
Sometimes you have to listen to the harsh truth, since I can say LOOK OUT A CAR will hit you, or listen to the other that says don't be negative look on the good side and if bad happens then it happens but as long as you don't feel bad before it his.

Just like the bible verse how Christ says to the other go away you that work evil, even though the person tries to do good under Gods name. As you see his good intentions are evil. The person means well but Christ doesn't want him despite the person means well. It is sad that some Christians sects try to sell that BS that if you believe only you are saved no matter what bad you do. Don't let politically correct people sway you, but everyone thinks they are immune and just when they think they are is when they are the most influenced.

Spade
My MonEy spade.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

spade89

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From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.

and if that goes over your head.
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.
NO MONEY FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT IT.


and by the way muslims believe in a god not God.

when a man is with Christ he is a whole new creation, when you are a Christian you let go of your old self and become a new creation in the image of your God.

so if you are a born again believer you can have no culture but the culture of Christianity(kindness,rightousness,forgivness,humblness...etc).

no Christian is savage and when a man gets converted the whole point of the conversion is that he lets go and forgets about all the savagery and sin of his past and becomes a whole new person.

and yeah i agree with the second part of your signature.


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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited February 07, 2007).]

kenman

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isnt taking an ideology as Christianity they distort it by adding their own culture a tradition?



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LAZ
No comments?

Kenman
No. You celibate Christmas and Easter donít you? Why follow that yearly tradition? You do the cross and have a cross so why do that? You condition yourself to do what is proper. Even the apostles didnít get told to fast but they fasted and told others to act like them in every way.

Also the fact that many things the bible said the Ancient Greeks said if you look at quotes and saying. Even Socrates as some say was considered a Christian before his time in his actions and words. That can be one reason why Christ and the apostles went to the Ancient Greeks to help spread the Religion since the views were similar. Even the Founding fathers of the USA they used the bible and Greek Ideology to help make the country. They were into logic and not magic unlike many other now protestant nations back then. They didnít kill people for bearing witches like Protestants did or force people to convert. Even in India they learned form them and reached all the way their and they taught some of the information they gathered to the Asians to have Buddhism, martial arts, etc. India is unstable which didnít flourish well but there is a rise in orthodoxy after it was freed form Muslim, Jewish, and Non orthodoxy Christian sects to spread the gospel properly and not be forced upon others like the poor people of north and south American, south Africa, Asia, and many protestants that are hungry for more get more. Many of the old courtiers stated in the bible are Orthodox. You can say that they are ahead of their time, and waiting for the rest to catch up which some do but many are set back on wants of culture and cultural traditions.

In the end its not distort but encourage. You can see that in the fruits of trees bearing good fruit. If we talk about distort then everything is. As the link will show even the apostles knew their actions were mostly similar which is why they accepted it better than most and were educated to be able to spread it efficiently. Even the apostles followed traditions which are not blatantly said in the bible for them specifically to do but they do mention in indirect ways like to do what they do. Just like how the bible doesn't tell you to breath to live but it doesn't have to say every logical thing that was the norm back them. Its just people are far out of touch with how christians use to act and are more use to secular society.

(Origins of Christian views before Christ!)
http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000233.html

There is a reason why they don't teach in school certain history so people see things their secular away, so watch out for that. There is a lot to learn and so little time. Honestly am I responsible to straighten people out so that they don't assume or misunderstand things?

have fun

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
I may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited February 10, 2007).]

kenman

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Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Warsong, yes, but I do not celebrate Christmas like many people. I celebrate Christmas by giving. I spent most of my Christmas in a nursing home. But yes I do celebrate a lot of things, but not traditionally. Do I have a cross, yes, but do I make it an idol, no. The point I was trying to make and will make it clearer, is that salvation comes by grace and not tradition. Sadly, people will end up wasting their lives in eternal damnation following good intentioned traditions.

Bottom line, Christianity is about RELATIONSHIP not tradition. But yes Warsong, tradition can play a part in that relationship. But it cannot take the place of it.

Lazarus

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quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
LAZ
No comments?


No thank you, my question was answered quite clearly and succinctly.




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Tradition is not meant to take the place of what you are supposed to do but help you practice to be a better Christian. You can not better yourself if you do not practice, the same thing with holy tradition when it says to fast since so that people have self control and not let their indulgences take control. You have to condition yourself and no one else will remind you or tell you when to do it. You agree you form some sorts of traditions to help you and so the ďproperĒ tradition are their to help. Look at historyís examples and you can see.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

bennythebear

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From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
ia agree that mankind does have a way of putting their beliefs in with the teachings of Christ, which is obviously wrong. but don't mistake the way they worship for that. such as someone who is a Christan, and plays country style music, will prob'ly worship with a country sound. native americans might beat their drums in praise to God, and those of hip-hop culture might praise God with a hip-hop beat. i don't believe God changes skills and talents, but what you use the skills and talents for will change because your heart will be changed. as a side note, God will add skills and talents if you use the ones you already have.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs




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The way people worship matters too.
You cant have people cutting their wrists to praise Christ. You have some christians that crucify themselves that actually let another take a nail though their hand and be tied to a cross to worship in south America. You have prostitutes having the cross and say they are doing what is Christian to make others happy. Their is a long list of depravity in how people praise Christ/God since they bring their own culture. And what seems to not hurt not doesn't mean it wont later on.

In the other post about Christian music how most Christian singers say they praise god but all of them seem to act worse than regular secularists bans since as the saying goes the "stink isn't far from the **** ". I hammer Christian rock on the last comment.

"Rock star David Bowie said, "Rock has always been THE DEVILS MUSIC." ROCK ON DAVID BOWIE!"

"an article about Contemporary Christian Music titled the article, "New Lyrics for the DEVIL'S MUSIC"."

"Ray Coleman quotes John Lennon as saying, "I've sold my soul to the DEVIL." "
http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000258.html
I know some will comment about music but read other post's quotes and links. Sorry if some things on the links are disturbing in how perverse christian musicians act but as I said "the think isn't far..."

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Ereon

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Registered: 04-12-2005
*shrug* Game Design has usually been the the devil's industry (Doom, God of War, Leisure Suit Larry, |insert endless list here| ). I suppose we'll just have to sit back and let him have it then. Oh well, we tried, it's just too unredeemable.

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The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited February 19, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited February 19, 2007).]

steveth45

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From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
LAZ
Even the apostles didnít get told to fast but they fasted and told others to act like them in every way.

Jesus fasted on numerous occasions. He also said, "But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." It certainly sounds like he was encouraging everyone to fast. In fact, he assumed that people would fast ("when you fast") and promised a blessing.

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you are comparing apples with oranges.
doom was not first. I even have the original home video game. PONG but I threw that out since it didn't work, but I still have Super Pong. lol That game needs a heavy upgrade and its too bad so many did such bad attempts.
O well whatever

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Lava
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Lol I don't think Ereon was putting them in order of release, because I'm sure the majority knows DOOM wasn't the first "offensive" game out there lol.

And actually Warsong, you're wrong in saying PONG was first (at least it *looks* like you said it was first lol), Computer Space was the first, coming out a year before PONG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Space

Oh yeah! You said that PURPOSE to TRAP me! My bad! Haha

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited February 20, 2007).]

goop2

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The Atari was prayed over by satanists..

I don't see a problem with Christian Rock. Some of the bands did do some pretty stupid things, [Stryper.. I think thats how its spelled.. They did the Heaven and Hell tour] but you cant judge everyone by one person. Do you believe your worship is better than another persons? The 'Rock is evil' thing started with people like Jimi Hendrix, not people like Phil Joel. If you compare the differences between satanic rock, and Christian rock you'll notice quite a difference.

As for the muslim thing, that all started right from the beginning. Its actually in the Bible.. The 2 brothers.. Anyway, one began Christianity, and one began Muslim..ism? The muslims have always wanted to destroy all Christians. Now the United States of America have formed under Christianity, with Christian leaders. Muslims want to destroy this country too. They believe in world peace.... after all Christians are dead.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.




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Lava
I was talking about the foundation of things and without a good foundation the rest is not stable. I know computer space was first arcade but Pong was the first electronic home game system but itís not the first arcade. Maybe they could have called it shoot the blocks but as you see it was but some silly simple code that move pixels and not real violence. Games didnít have much graphics and so they didnít go with gore and even games after when they did have better art they didnít put gore or extreme violence since some companies restricted it.

Goop
But you agree that if the foundation is not good then the rest is not right? But what you want to turn around is to make me say to throw the baby out with the bathwater which is not true. Just like the Muslim example you said there foundation of the religion would be nothing without the influence of Christianity but that doesnít mean we have to accept that religion as good or call it Christian. I talked and quoted enough about Christian music on the other link which if you can to read the links they explain more so go harass them about Christian music. All I did was scratch the surface to show that there is nothing rotten underneath.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

goop2

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I don't understand how you can say this.. I said muslims wanted to destroy Christians,, why would you call that Christian?
I'm not harassing, call it that if you like, but I'm merely pointing out relevant fact. Take it or leave it, but you really can't call it harassment.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.




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I am not saying you are defending them but that if you are going to go by one analogy then you should also say the same thing about Muslim religion in that kind of thinking is all I am saying. Since people say that the foundation doesn't matter when i say it does, or when people say that something that came about in the middle can corrupt the foundation which is not true as well. You know what I mean?
I get the feeling I still didn't explain it well. lol

Also I don't want to talk about the same thing since enough information has been stated before.

steveth45

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I think rock music, like all genres of music, is redeemable, so are video games. Who cares what David Bowie said about rock music. He's wrong. The devil doesn't own anything, except an expectation of judgment. What if David Bowie said that pants are the devil's clothing, would we all have to change our style of dress? It's ridiculous.

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Lava
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quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
Lava
I was talking about the foundation of things and without a good foundation the rest is not stable. I know computer space was first arcade but Pong was the first electronic home game system but itís not the first arcade. Maybe they could have called it shoot the blocks but as you see it was but some silly simple code that move pixels and not real violence. Games didnít have much graphics and so they didnít go with gore and even games after when they did have better art they didnít put gore or extreme violence since some companies restricted it.


Who said ANYTHING about home consoles?

Ereon mentioned DOOM first on his list and you said it wasn't first, PONG was, but you couldn't be talking about PONG being the first offensive game because PONG was...well ping pong lol. You couldn't be talking about home consoles because DOOM was mostly a PC game and to my knowledge didn't have a console game based off it until 4 years after it's original release.

And actually you're there again, Magnavox Odyssey was the first home console.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnavox_Odyssey

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited February 21, 2007).]

buddboy

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From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
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my lord warsong way to jump on laz for a simple question. god knows you start enough of your own stupid topics and then go and freak out at lazarus.

laz, the thing about good intentions, in a sentence, means that intentions do not mean anything, you could have the best intentions and do the worst things.

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that post was really cool ^
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Steve
What if the devil did say it then what? Lol Well you have to admit rock stars are no Christian idols. Some people grow out of it and some donít. Take a look at the links about music and my explanation of good music in the other post if u want to know more.
ď13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.Ē I know you like that quote

Lava
I said about home consoles first, but yeah you are right about Odyssey. But you still miss the big picture I knew of it in the mid 80ís but I never played that since that system was bad. But as you see the games on it they are not violent to the point parents say close you r eyes the big white dot is not appropriate for kids lol Before doom there was wolvenstine, before that was bards tale, etc. The intent of games originally was not bad as GTA is. But GTA is just a scavenger hunt game but made into a video game, not it would be good to make Christian game like that but no one gets it I guess. But answer me is it a good foundation important?
Just because something that is neutral or good and someone else uses that to make something bad does that say the foundation is bad? Like if you have a stone foundation in the earth and you build strong home then it wont move since both are strong foundation and home, but if you build a wooden or straw home and the winds blow hard a home gets torn apart is it the foundations fault? So what we have here is good foundation good home =good place to live, but good foundation bad home =not that great when truly tested.
But if you have a bad foundation to be just the flat earth and the strong home is on top the home will move from where it stands and break apart or flip, but if you want a bad foundation and bad home you will see sooner devastation. So bad foundation good home not that great when truly tested again, and bad foundation and bad home then you have to expect devastation just like a sand castle. Out of 4 possible options only 1 is good and lasts long, 2 are temporary and last a little, and one can not handle anything.

ď6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.Ē
Using metaphors properly can help.

In the end ask yourself would Christ or the apostles do those things? Would he rock on with the rock stars? What next books are evil because Gilgamesh was not Christian? I hope some donít put satanic books with the pile of proper literature. There are some books can stray people away from god, there are some music that can, there are some games, there are some activities, etc. you have to agree with that, but the thing that is questionable is what kind. Just like the example of the foundation and home how there are 4 examples but one answer so there are with other things. Since you want one with a good foundation and good thing on top of it, and not one that says itís a good thing but has a bad foundation. It may look good but underneath it is not. YES????

ď2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the masterís use, and prepared unto every good work.
2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.Ē

Budboyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Again stop getting so tense. I tried to explain in details thats all. Just because you don't understand my topics doesn't mean they are bad, its just that you don't want to agree and you get mad that you can't win with proper supporting points and so you start targeting me. lol Calm down budyboy you seem to mostly reply more aggressive than most lately since you are starting to become fanatical and that can blind you from understanding another side. No wonder you get all tense. stay calm bud

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited February 21, 2007).]

buddboy

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From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
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what I don't get a reply?

and about the whole video game violence thing, what do you expect?

"In the last days it shall be as in the days of Noah."

just one more thing that is bringing that to pass.

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that post was really cool ^
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Ereon

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I beg to differ Warsong. Ever heard of "Custard's Revenge", or how about Death Racer? These were around even before the Odyssey, as soon as the technology was able to facilitate them as a matter of fact, and they had content that rivaled even games like GTA for concepts of violence and perverted sexuality, but not the display of that violence (for obvious technological reasons).
Games have always been to entertain, and there have always been people who consider "entertainment" to be titillating junk to pleasure their flesh. There is no such thing as a good foundation built by humans, even the apostles and saints (ask Saint Paul). Even the human race has corrupted origins from the very beginning of time (Adam and Eve's sin) and so we're all hopeless, and everything we do is hopeless. It's a dark, blasted world we live in, and the only way to change anything is to rebuild on the foundation and core of Christ. There are rock bands that are doing it, there are game designers who are doing it, there are authors who are and have been doing it. And now it's our turn. If you want to help, then fine, if all you're going to do is rant and tell other people what to do then you're accomplishing nothing then thanks for your concern, but I have better things to do. We've argued and "discussed" till we're all blue in the face (Not least of all you Warsong, I pity your fingers) and what has it done? Nothing, it has waylaid us from accomplishing anything while we trade shots back and forth across the wasteland of foolishness, wasting our ammo on each other.

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The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald

goop2

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So a strong house can be built on a strong foundation yes? And a weak house can also be built on a strong foundation yes? And a weak house can be reinforced no? I'm afraid I don't see any of this in the Bible. Sorry man.

Id like to know the difference between "God is Watching Over You" by Phil Joel, and Amazing Grace by John Newton. Actually.. nevermind, I know the difference.. in your opinion anyway.

Phil Joel has always been a Christian. His song is original with an original melody.

John Newton began (not actually where he started, but he didn't want to be where he started) as a slave trader. He became a mistreated servant.. everyone seemed to hate him.. he wasn't really a likable guy.. eventually he ended up on a ship to England. There was a storm and the ship almost went over.. He prayed and the storm stopped.. He then realized that prayer really helped, and became a Christian. Eventually he wrote Amazing Grace, using 'traditional' melody.

So basically:

Phil Joel: Christian rock vocalist, drummer, and bass guitarist. Wrote "God is Watching Over You" with original melody.

John Newton: Bad dude converted to Christian. I don't know much about his musical talent, just that he wrote quite a few songs. He wrote "Amazing Grace" with a bar song melody.

I know, you would think they are both pretty bad guys, but I think they are both quite respectable.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.




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Ereon
As I said once, games are for learning it's just that people distort them to be for entertainment only.
http://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/fac/peabody/game-book/Chapter2.html
Hey even you appreciate a game that you train yourself.


goop
Reread the bible to see it.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
Agreed, but even I can't stand a game like that for extended periods of time. It's like the difference between a programming manual and Lord of the Rings. I enjoy each, but they each have their own purpose. Each has its place and its function. To say that games are only for learning is foolish, just like to say that games are only for entertainment is equally foolish. Depending on the game it fulfills its purpose, as well as certain other, latent functions, its a matter of what the game is created to do, though, when you strip it all down, the only successful games are just that, game, not text books with cards and little plastic pieces or pixels on a screens.

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The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald




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I understand and agree with what you mean about those types of games but its not the general game to blame but the design of it. Even if you played an action game with the same art over and over and thatís was all then you would get board. Just like Christian games those training games are not well done yet and those are still new. And just like Christian games there is a demand for it if they are done well.

If you read the link you would understand that games are not only for learning and no fun, but to have fun while learning. Same thing with the bible games since I have not played one good one yet despite there are some that have done a lot but still I would not care to play much.

It all boils down to good design since the market is flooded with so many bad ones and the bad ones rely on cheap trick like detailed art, violence, and sex.

Here is my post on how to make an addicting game. I guess you missed that post since I posted it before you showed up. Obviously the list can be better but that might help you with the basics. If you have any suggestions to add on then go add on.
http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000184.html
Another good post lol, but all my posts are good itís just that some donít understand to agree with me. Lol

Have Fun

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
Warsong you always find a way to entertain me, for that I thank you. What continually makes me laugh is your repetitive use of this quote to endorse your views against Rock

quote:
"Rock star David Bowie said, "Rock has always been THE DEVILS MUSIC." ROCK ON DAVID BOWIE!"

Apparently you take tutelage from David Bowie and consider him an authority in religious matters.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
"Another good post lol, but all my posts are good itís just that some donít understand to agree with me. Lol"

Pride apparently is your path as well. I guess God should subscribe to your infinite knowledge and wisdom.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
He may have been kidding there, Matt.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Proverbs 16
18: Pride goes before destruction, and haughtiness before a fall.
19: It is better to live humbly with the poor than to share plunder with the proud.

quote:
Proverbs 29
23: Pride ends in humiliation, while humility brings honor


I think Warsong has taken the meaning of that wrong..

quote:
Proverbs 11:2
Pride leads to disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom


Oh, I get it. I guess you were right Matt. At this rate Warsong will become the wisest, most honored person in the world.

Pride
humiliation
honor and wisdom
repeat

quote:
Mathew 11
25: Then Jesus prayed this prayer: "O Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise and clever, and revealing it to the childlike.
26: Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way!

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 27, 2007).]




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You know itís easy for me to rely. But despite it being amusing itís also a waste of my time so ill keep it short.
Read the link which I quoted from a protestant site about those quotes which that site has a few articles dedicated and many pages with bible quotes about it. People are in no position to dispute when they didnít read the entire thing.

People that complain about the other person to be humble should look at themselves first, or should I quote the bible on that part? I donít need to prove to anyone anything; I just throw bait all over the place to see how people act. Using myself as bait is a great way to see who is humble and who isnít.

But as I said all my posts are good if you donít like then donít read, but also that its not the main message but the bait I throw is good too. Its like fishing to see how people think. I didnít say my posts were perfect but people so people should quit complaining. People must read up on history and word new better. Or should I post another good topic on how to do that too?

In the end everyone's "opinions" are noted, but donít expect much. Lets try to be more constructive. Some people agree some donít, some change there mind after reading what I say some donít. Sometimes they benefit and sometimes they remain the same. But in the end its not my problem and I donít benefit if people do or donít want to make themselves better. Will Christian rock be your salvation highly unlikely, can it be used as a gateway to better music maybe but it could also be for worse? Can people benefit from the list of how to make games more addicting maybe, will I benefit definitely not. In the end do I benefit no from others taking some advice from me absolutely not, do I get hassled you better believe it lol.

Odd how no one has comments about the good things said but only about the bad, that says a lot. Donít bother figuring me out, since even this post is about how people misunderstand as always what I am saying and take the wrong meaning always. I would guess some see the irony in it all, but maybe some donít, so o well. "kesera sera"

Have fun

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
You never did say why you trust the demon possessed more than your fellow Christians.. Oh well.. people never do say why they would rather listen to satan...

------------------
A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.




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Goop what are you talking about?
Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
I don't know either.
buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
warsong I was upset because you seemed to attack Lazarus for asking a question. he was just curious. perhaps PMs weren't working for him. I can't get mine to work. plus what does him having a lot of posts have to do with it? also, perhaps it may occur to you that you may have not answered that in the time either of those two were here. I don't think spade, or anyone for that matter, would not notice one of your inflammatory, outrageous posts.

perhaps Laz just thought other people might wonder about it as well.

don't take it the wrong way? I for one wondered about the first one, myself. is it possible to ask the meaning so that we *don't* take it the wrong way?

can somebody around here be curious without getting personally attacked?

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that post was really cool ^ <IMG SRC="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/mitchelldude/swordbanner.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f272/mitchelldude/liberalismjoke.jpg">
|
[|=D) <---|| me

[This message has been edited by buddboy (edited March 02, 2007).]

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
quote:
Originally posted by buddboy:
can somebody around here be curious without getting personally attacked?

How DARE you ask such a question, Buddboy?! Are you THAT dumb???

j/k! I'm just illustrating your point.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
You quote a satanist and praise him for what he says. I don't understand why you trust him over Christian artists.

Sorry I was somewhat rude in the way I put it before.. Sometimes I say some pretty stupid things :\
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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited March 03, 2007).]




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Laz
Did I attack you? Since I donít understand what Goop and bud are saying.

Bud
Sure, be curious, ask, but donít assume. Socrates gave a good quote which I donít remember now but he said He can not teach anyone anything and all he does it ask questions to make them understand. I guess that way people use the processing part of the brain to think than the memory part of the brain. lol

Goop
If you are talking about Shaw he was not a Satanist but he was not as Christian. Itís like you calling crazyhorse or cheese storm Satanists. lol The guy got a noble prize. The fat is that Christians distort the bible since they put there own interpretation in it. I donít agree with everything he did just like how I donít agree with everything a Christian does. I bet you kiss up to atheists more than me, which you have before. There are more famous people that are an atheist that are admired by our society and loved by Christians and pay for it every day. I give a quote and you complain, go figure. Even C.S. Lewis was not that much Christian when he was a Christian and said some bad things about Christianity but Christians buy all his stuff. I bet most of the things you own are made by companies that have Anti Christian owners.

Maybe GB Shawís saying means something else from what I take from it, but thatís not the point since its there to make people think. Sure he is an atheist but some Christian sects confused him to be that way.
As one site says
ďGeorge Bernard Shaw was asked what he thought of Christianity. After a lengthy pause Shaw opined, "I don't know; it might work if anyone ever tried it".Ē

The problem with atheists is that they think that religion is the problem because they see so many fake sects act worse than atheists which they give up. They donít see itís the cure since so many sell fake cures, and the ones that do sell real ones there is always someone next to them saying that all sects are created equal which is blasphemous. Atheists have been confused to the point they are sick of it all. They complain about discrimination in society dispirit the hypocrisy that they discriminate the most to put every sect in the same place. Some anti Christian atheists in Europe convert to Muslim which makes them even crazy. We are surrounded by atheists, live with it, but try not to aid them to the point they get so much power they hurt youÖ oops too late Christian Americans have them all the power and its too late, o well. Lol

Christianity and atheism or another ism is not the problem; the thing that does the most damage is within, with fake sects that have done the heaviest damage to Christianity more than any secularist could do.

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yes you did, in your first reply to him.

you jumped down his throat asking him why he started a whole topic for this, why he had so many posts already, and said 'what do you think it means? don't take it the wrong way'

he didn't take it any way, he was asking what it meant.

THAT'S WHAT I JUST SAID, HE WAS CURIOUS AND ASKED SO HE DIDN'T GET THE QUOTE WRONG.

sometimes I swear you drive me insane.

atheism isn't a problem?

millions of people not even acknowledging the existence of our lord is not a problem?

what is a problem then? video games?

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that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
No dude, not video games. These guys:

Newsboys Album: Devotion. Brought to you straight from the devil in hell.

Of course this guy is fine.

Don't worry bout him, he ain't gonna hurt nobody!

------------------
A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
This thread just drips with Christian love and harmony.



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Goop =======
Do you really want me to reply? Fine I will in buds post. lol

Bud======
Sometimes you swear? If you say so, but try not to use Gods name in vain.
Thatís an insult? I asked him a question. I think I have too many posts am I insulting myself? I think you have too many posts and we signed on at the same time to CCN. Laz has more posts that room and goop has been on for 3 years instead of 1.
I didnít even think of saying anything insulting or meant it but as I said before many times people are too hypersensitive.
I answered Laz in detail and I didnít see him complain so I donít know why you and goop want to start trouble.

Atheism is a problem, but all I said was that as bad as that is Christians are there worst enemies to Christians, which I talked about that enough times.
For example since GOOOOOP brought up the movie labyrinth which I saw that once 15 years ago, there was a part in the movie that gave a riddle.

TWO GUARDS block 2 passages. One guard always lies and the other always tells the truth. You have one question to ask only one of them to find out which road to take what, would that question be?
I would guess most will figure it out but do you see the irony.

So some advice would beÖ. Be as humble as laz.

Laz =====
Not an insult as some assume but a word of advice try to better your self than waste time. Since you are motivated to post so much why not spend an equal amount of time playing a memory game for example.

Here is another riddle
"There are two sorts of people: knights, who always tell the truth, and knaves, who always lie. There are three people, A, B, and C.

A says: B is a knave!
B says: A and C are of the same type.

Of what type is C?"

here is another one http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1028108&lastnode_id=0
lol

PS. The actress in labyrinth also played in the movie Target. Funny movie, I donít think intended for Ĺ the people in here though.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited March 10, 2007).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Modern riddles are 1 of 3 things. Retardedly easy, cheating, or impossible. This one is impossible. There is no way to tell without knowing one more thing.

A says "B is a knave"
B says "A and C are the same"

If A is a knave then C must be a knave. If A is a knight then C must be a knight. Most would assume A is a knave, but there is really no way to tell.

The tiger one was simple. It was a regular one, although somewhat easy.

The reference to the movie was about the person, not the movie. I have never seen it, nor have I even heard of it until now.

------------------
A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.




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It doesn't matter what A or B are. The question asked what is C.

It's a basic math problem if you break it down.




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As for throwing bait, it's mainly to discourage people that start problems. If the mods wants to protect them then and not say anything to them then the site will go down the drain.

I was a mod once which was just for fun but the other mods were slow and caused more problems since they cant read peoples actions well. mods mostly hold back the proper people so that the illogical people have more freedom. like of like how the liberals party lets gays do anything while the Christian government officials holds back the christians to fight back with silly restrictions pandering to ignorant cry babies.

------------------
Salvation comes from work not faith alone."faith without works is dead"James
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance" Mat
"have we not prophesied in thy name?... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Mat
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
As for throwing bait, it's mainly to discourage people that start problems. If the mods wants to protect them then and not say anything to them then the site will go down the drain.

I was a mod once which was just for fun but the other mods were slow and caused more problems since they cant read peoples actions well. mods mostly hold back the proper people so that the illogical people have more freedom. like of like how the liberals party lets gays do anything while the Christian government officials holds back the christians to fight back with silly restrictions pandering to ignorant cry babies.


I would very much not want to take part of a forum or community in which you were an active mod in. I also find your comparison uninspired and highly unoriginal.

I find this comment highly comical:

quote:
mods mostly hold back the proper people so that the illogical people have more freedom.

Since I think you qualify as one of those "illogical people" and you have quite a bit of freedom to post your thoughts. So I find it very ironic that if the mods here were to do what you suggest a good mod does then you would have very few posts left untouched.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames




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Do you like communism? What you say seems to side more towards it. Some say it is close to Christianity but I don't think so.

You don't know me but you act like you do, so what do you call that?

If you don't like you don't have to come in my posts. Disagree all you want about the points made, but to come here start throwing negative words towards me personally is hypocritical of you. Do I come in your posts and complain about you personally? Thanks for unknowingly justifying my point.

You know what they say about people that assume.

------------------
Salvation comes from work not faith alone."faith without works is dead"James
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance" Mat
"have we not prophesied in thy name?... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Mat
I may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited March 29, 2007).]

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
quote:
Do you like communism? What you say seems to side more towards it. Some say it is close to Christianity but I don't think so.

Far from it... I'm an objectivist, very much against communism, much more in support of capitalism.

quote:
You don't know me but you act like you do, so what do you call that?

I call that misinterpretation. I do not know you, though you reflect yourself in how you present yourself, how you post and speak, and how you converse with people. I have had a few conversations with you on these boards so I may not know 'you' but I have a good representation of how you present yourself. Of course it's not uncommon for people to display false pride, ego, and facade in an online forum since they don't have to back it up with their real personality and in person presentation.

quote:
If you don't like you don't have to come in my posts. Disagree all you want about the points made, but to come here start throwing negative words towards me personally is hypocritical of you. Do I come in your posts and complain about you personally? Thanks for unknowingly justifying my point.

Wow... aparently I touched a sensitive spot. I think the word for that statement of yours, considering our past communications, would be ironic and hypocritical. Even if your imagined insults were true they would be of less quantity than the ones you've hurled at me, so maybe look at your beam before you point out my splinter. From what you said you can say all you want, though I cannot respond with my opinion on it? You should be prepared to receive it back if you give it out.

It's amazing how condescending you present yourself. Do you really think the power you feel by saying things like "Thanks for unknowingly justifying my point" is real. For one, if I really did "unkowingly" justify your point you wouldn't actually tell me that I unkowingly did. The only purpose of telling that would be to rub it in my face, to make you feel a larger person by making me feel smaller. Proverbs has some very clear passages about the wise man keeping their lips shut during something like that. For some reason you feel that you have to validate it by stating it. Maybe you should question what you so firmly believe and assert, apparently it's not so strong in you, otherwise you wouldn't have to excuse it.

quote:
You know what they say about people that assume.

You would know very clearly from first hand experience, try re-reading your post and see how ridiculous that statement is at the end of what you just said.

------------------
Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames




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Two extremes are no better. Capitalism in its truest form is destructive and is also on the other side of the pendulum.

Since you admit you misinterpret then do you say thatís good? You know its not but you persist.

What sensitive spot? Lol I am trying to explain since you donít get it and I guess you still donít by assuming again. Point out the hypocrisy than throwing words. As for insults what insults? You come on starting things then you complain that the other turns your argument against you. You are not a person to talk to if you persist to act this way, so the more you complain the more you come in my posts to complain. So I have to ask you who FORCED you to read my post?

You obviously donít understand the fine line. Well I say thanks for proving my point since you always do. I take no pleasure in telling you the facts. I donít care, you like to come on other peopleís posts and start problems you know you do since there has not been one post where you havenít done so. You donít see Laz, Jari, Brandon, etc doing that. Expect me to poke at your weakness when you start personal attack and derailing topics as you naturally do.

I like that you gave a thought to dissect the point of small and large person but thatís not true. As I stated in the other posts its how you try to treat people since thatís how you think people are treating you. No one is after you, and for you to try and start something to make yourself feel tall is not benefiting you. I talked to talk to in privately but then you reply publicly since you want to feel tall. Look at yourself first. I take no pride in telling you how you act after you start things up since you talk like you are on steroids. So why talk to me, better yet go away and go to a priest, and donít think that they are belittling you. People are not against or after you so donít be against them first so donít take thing out of context.

Good luck

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Salvation comes from work not faith alone."faith without works is dead"James
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance" Mat
"have we not prophesied in thy name?... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Mat
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
lol, yet again I refrain from responding since you really don't know how to communicate. Have you really tried talking with someone without trying to condescend? Without trying to state in as many ways as you can that they are wrong and you are right. Not very Jesus like if you ask me, but I will hold off judgement since you do enough for both of us.

quote:
People are not against or after you so donít be against them first so donít take thing out of context.

I like how you berate me for making an assumption (which again I am not admitting to, but pointing out that even if I did it wouldn't change a thing) and them you go ahead and assume about me. From that statement you very much don't know, you have no clue what I do and what much of my effort is spent towards, otherwise you would realize how ridiculous that statement is. My job, my duties, and my personal participating involving is completely based around me not believing people are against me in general. lol, to think you just made that statement and just a few days ago with my colleagues I was referred to as the optimistic one and the one who gives people more of a chance than them, this coming from fellow employees of a company based around providing a product that could be charged drastically higher but sold at an extremely low price point to give people opportunity.

That's why I can't help but laugh at your attempts to sum me up... you have no clue who I am and what personality I am. You haven't even come close, try again

------------------
Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames




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lol wow you are way off. You just don't get it.
It's like a attacker going into the home of another and attacks, snd the home owner attacks the attacker and tell them to stop or else they will get hit more, and the attacker says what hypocrisy. lol

Can we have a translator come in here? lol

------------------
Salvation comes from work not faith alone."faith without works is dead"James
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance" Mat
"have we not prophesied in thy name?... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Mat
:pI may be outnumbered but not out gunned.

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
You just proved your own hypocrisy.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
I think that concludes my effort to try and communicate with you. I do keep trying, I wonder why you always result to accusing me of attacking, then attacking yourself, then complaining that I complained you attacked when I didn't. Back to focusing my full effort on work.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames