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More info on the links but they don’t seem Christian. This is the way of the future for many churches sad to say. As Christ said the church has to be united but this is far from being united. Rack it up to another self interpretation's consequence. Evangelical leader--- Mr Haggard, 50, who on Thursday stepped down as the head of the 30m-strong National Association of Evangelicals, also admitted that he bought methamphetamine but "never used it". Mr Haggard, who is also known as "Pastor Ted" and has five children, has close contacts with the White House. " "She says she doesn't consider Jesus Christ to be the only way to God. She says she believes God makes some people "gay." And she's soon to be the leader of a mainline Protestant denomination in America. In his letter to the Colossians, the Apostle Paul writes that "in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" (Col. 2:9, NIV). But in an interview this week with Associated Press, Bishop Katharine Jefferts-Schori -- who is to be installed on Saturday as the first female presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church USA -- stated that Christians should not say that Jesus is the only way to God. "If we insist we know the one way to God," she said, "we've put God in a very small box."" ------------------ |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
Those situations aren't good, but not all churches are like that you know. And just because one leader is bad doesn't make the rest of his church members bad. ...I think. |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
Warsong, as you well know "the deeds of the few do not always represent the deeds of the many" Do these folk represent you? They are Orthodox Christian. What do you say? Are Orthodox Christians a disgrace? All quotes from numerous articles online.... In Eritrea..... Gospel singer Helen Berhane released
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quote: Meanwhile in Georgia.....
quote: Meanwhile, back in Greece....
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But I wonder if this really represents the Orthodox Church. I would hope the true beliefs (and yours) are more along the words of this wise Orthodox leader, Ecumenical Patriarch Metrophanes III:
quote: [This message has been edited by coolj (edited November 06, 2006).] |
NetCog Member Posts: 149 From: Registered: 06-15-2006 |
Coolj ftw. No one is without sin. |
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Laz Yes not all churches are like that but the head of the church officially states that unchristian things are the way to go. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree Christ says, also that if the foundation is not good the rest is not good and it show. Obviously many of the followers I would hope do not agree but the entire establishment is falling apart. Also don’t be paranoid. Just because others scream fire doesn’t make it that you have to panic just by seeing smoke screens. Mr. Cool As for your link it’s not the Orthodox Churches concern since that country is in a Muslim region which they do what they do. But some orthodox countries do not permit Muslim institutions since they see the affect it has done all over Europe especially France with all the riots. But they are forced to let them in and it bring more Muslims in. Is that bad? As for why Eritean doesn’t let others preach, I do not know why but judging by other Christian sects actions I guess they don’t find them Christians but hypocrites and don’t want hypocrisy in. Muslims countries have been bombed enough by Protestants enough, but that’s just a guess. As for Greece is considered to be the only “Christian country” since Christianity is part of the culture and has been ever since the apostles lives their. But I don’t see any religious problem with it but that’s a government issue and the government understands that if they give access to one then everyone will want I guess and so more people and the place is already over populated. You saw the Olympics how that way a small country having the biggest event lol. They can do what they want it’s their country if people don’t like it then they can live in France when they let it all in including Muslims and have riots and get their cars burned. I think but I am not sure that Muslim institutes are not allowed in the capital despite there is an influx of Muslims. If they let it then they will get wiped out since all the Muslims that live next door will move in and overpopulate everyone else like they do in other European countries. Hey they have been around for over 10,000 years and many of the great intellects come from their so I would guess they know what they are doing. Russia As for the rest it’s the same thing it’s a government issues and not a religious one. As for what they teach it has to be backed up, and if they exclude they are no different from what other countries exclude, I don’t see much of European history in the US and many don’t know about world maps in the US while in Europe they know more. It’s just a mater of opinions when dealing with this issues and not religious. As for the comments about Israel the majority of Europe is like this and the majority of people in Europe say that Israel is the #1 threat to world peace but that’s not a religious issue again. As for the sermons the Orthodox Church has been the same in its stance from the apostles and the apostles didn’t have a problem with it and they are considered anti-Semites including the bible being anti Semitic. Even the movie the passion is anti Semitic so should we change the worlds in the bible as well, or the anti Semitic comments Christ and the apostles made? As the pope said about the movies it is what it is, so let God judge them all you have to do is watch you step if you care to and not attack anyone. The first Christians were hunted and killed by Jews. They have dealt with the apostles, Jews, Muslims to know what’s going on since if you look where the country is it’s in the middle of it all. You can even look back and see that before their were Christian sects the church took that stance as well. You can’t judge unless you know what they know. The orthodox church is more united than the rest despite there are different names like Russian, Egyptian, Ethiopian etc and they all are considered equal and they all decide what they should do with issues and have been for 2,000 years and have stayed the same path which they are attacked for not changing their ways to cater to modern day people like other have to allowed women to be priests or to accept gays as being ok. The point is you think they discriminate and they probably do since they don’t go with what society feels is offensive to side with gay issues, and the rest. As the bible said you can not follow mans laws and gods laws and you are attacking the church since its not going with mans laws? So no its not disgraceful since they have 100x more experience first hand, while others have it don’t even have the same experience and don’t have first hand knowledge of them. Generally your post didn’t offer much but the point is that their can only be one church and to have churches contradicting with each other is not Christian. So as for you last quote it’s the same as before it’s just that you interpret it negatively to see it offensive that realistically. I hope that clarified everything. ------------------ |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
quote: Yeah sorry about that. I do think it is terrible the number of pastors who are found committing adultery, looking at porn, etc. |
MastaLlama Member Posts: 671 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
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CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
Warsong,
quote: ok, let me offer some more...
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quote: In otherwords, Muslims in Greece have MORE rights than Protestant Christians. So this is not even an issue of Orthodox Church vs Muslims. What I find interesting is how you seem to 'see no evil' when it comes to the Orthodox Church. And yet you are so quick to point out the splinter in the eye of other Christian groups. There is corruption and sin among Orthodox Christians as well. Don't be fooled. To imply some moral superiority to protestant Christians is wrong and I'm afraid might be an Orthodox Christian's greatest catastrophe (if this was a prevalent attitude of an Orthodox Christian). Take the log out or just accept that we are Christian brothers. What! A PROTESTANT christian (to be precise, I'm non-denominational) is my christian brother! NO WAYYYY! We believe that Jesus died for our sins and without his mercy and salvation and our repentance we are doomed. We all fail without the grace of God and anything less than giving him our attention in all that we do opens us to sin and error. As far as the evangelical pastor, no Christian I know of would agree that what he has done is right. So we all agree, what is your point? And with the episcopal church. The unbiblical doctorine that has crept into this church is splitting it apart. Wow, this should sound familiar to you. Wasn't it the Orthodox Church and the Catholic church that split once too? I'll let you scrap it out with a Catholic believer to decide whose view was right on that one. Likewise, the protestant church split out of the Catholic church because of doctorinal issues and practices. We both know there are two main types of issues that seperate the beliefs of Christian groups around the world: 1. The interpretation of what is explicitly stated in the Bible. 2. Traditional extra-biblical oral and written instruction that adds to or defines what is customary or required for a Christian of a particular group. Sadly, the only way for a unified church as you decribe is to toss #2 out the window or at least realize that focus on #1 is of much more importance. I really don't see this happening. Your tradition adds praying to the Saints and using of the Icons.
quote: Actually I'm referring to countries that are majority Orthodox Christians not allowing protestant churches and ministry.
quote: btw, Eritrea is 50% Christian (strongly Orthodox) and 50% Muslim. And your answer is the arrogance that I was referring to - If protestants were 'better' Christians then they wouldn't be persecuted in these countries and the Orthodox church would welcome them with open arms and fight for their right to open a ministry in the country. Do you really believe this? Or do you just think gospel singers are so evil they must be beaten.
quote: Greece is 97% Orthodox Christian. So you you say it's a government problem, not a religous problem. They are basically the same thing. The Greek government is made up of and highly biased toward Orthodox Church (and against protestant churchs as I pointed out earlier.) If you missed this, let me repeat: "In Greece, proselytizing is illegal unless it is an attempt to convert a person to Greek Orthodoxy." All I can say is thank God I live in USA! Put the shoe on other foot - Could you imagine if you had to get permission from a Baptist minister to start an Orthodox Church? OR telling someone about the Patriarchs could could get you fined or imprisoned? Welcome to freedom of religion the Greece way! But like I said, I don't think this is how the majority of Orthodox Christians believe, at least I hope not! But you give me some concern. |
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First off As for the topic the women bishop in what she said can not be disputed and you know that. But as for the other guy he says he didn’t do those things so "maybe" he didn’t and maybe you should look into why he was targeted now right before elections. Just like what I said in the other post connect the dots follow the money, or would you like me to do the work for you? As for your reply LAZ COOL You asked for it so here is a mroe detailed explination sicne. Sure individuals make mistakes but for the church or top leader to take a stance that in unchristian is a big blow to the church. The Orthodox church was their from the beginning and they have seen many Christian sects come and disappear despite many interpreting the bible their own way or for them to not even use the bible "The Church, as a whole, is infallible, but not God-inspired to the extent that it has understood the entire depth of the truths and formulated and proclaimed them to the world." http://orgs.unt.edu/ocf/about.html Protestant religion has done enough damage all over the world which is why they are locked them out since they forcefully convert and have taken many countries money, killed many and bribe many which over here its unheard about for many reasons. Even some Protestants agree that they can not open up their mouth or else they will loose converts and they are wise to do that if they want to remain in power but not a Christian way. Sure there are many good religious people but the ideologies of the religion is what hurts the people the most sad to say. Eritrea may be 50% Christian but not 100% of the 50% if orthodox and they do not have that much power in what the numbers state. But I do not know about that country issues since it will be mostly Muslim anyway. The protestant church gets what does, which is why Muslim countries get along better with Orthodox since orthodox doesn’t take sides while the protestant church always attack the Muslims. The protestant church made its bed to sleep on, which many here praise, Israel and condemn automatically Muslims and think that the Muslims are def and dumb that they don’t pat attention. The Orthodox countries have to live with both of them and put an effort to get along, while the protestant countries bomb first and ask questions later. No matter how many points you bring their will be 50 times far more dirt on the protestant side and they know it, and the best thing to do is not even mention orthodoxy which that is the best plan they have and it works since many don’t know much about it. I am surprised some non orthodox Christian sects have a church in Orthodox countries since they Stole many priceless Artifacts and will not return it to them, talk about good will and then wanting to preach as well? lol :P That is funny and sad. It’s their responsibility to preserve Christ’s church since it originated by them, have apostolic succession, they have the original churches, gave the world the Bible as you know it today, the only one that has miracles that can’t be explained, etc. Even their bishops can be traced all the way back to the apostles. Everyone else tries to imitate it and claim it as their own when it was not originally. Well it’s a good thing the Muslims didn’t say they are Christian. You are kind of going off topic in some ways. The people I stated want to change the essence of Christianity while you have not shown how the Orthodox church is changing it but is has been attacked for not changing it. Even the bishop of NY has been booted for political reasons since it is not catering to what this government wants which that is also not freedom. If you want to talk about Greece more of them are leavening the US and going to Greece if you look at the census for NY, including Italians which they are the top ethnic groups that do well in the US but decide that it’s better elsewhere. Many orthodox countries may more Christian holydays, unlike the US where more days are closed for Jewish holiday’s even though they are less than 2-5% that are Jewish and less than 10% of them follow it. Christmas holiday is not considered winter break as it is here, and you want others to follow this countries ways and not for countries to govern themselves? Orthodox countries are being attacked by secularists to have a separation of church and state which your comments are close to secularists that attack Christianity since that is what they push for. If they let fake Christian sects do what they want back at the begging of the church then you would not be Christian in a way in the first place or have the bible so what you object to would contradict your faith in God. Since if things were your way 2000 years ago then there would be no Christianity if they let any crazy person make their own Christian sect. It’s like you making your own government and country in the middle of the US. To let anything go isn’t freedom. Even this country restricts things to protect freedom. They don’t allow some Christian sects which I think it is the Mormons that allow for a man to marry men women, other political views are not allowed as well. Many European countries don’t allow Satanism, but allow more freedoms than the US and they even allow steroids which over here it would be seen as bad. Just because you are use to something and someone else does it different doesn’t mean you are right and they are wrong. There other Christian churches their like the Catholic Church which causes problems and as I said before how other countries let Muslims do what they want and they cause riots. If you want to be PC and say they should do it then that’s silly. Should a Christian church accommodate room for Satanists as well to not discriminate? If the Satanist doesn’t like it they can go to another building. The same thing with a country if people don’t like it there other places, just like if you don’t like another church you go someplace else and not force them to let anyone in and not to allow a place to focus on what it believes. Its comments like what you say that influences church to be more liberal since many complain that the church does this bad thing in the eyes of secular antichristian society. Be careful what you wish for or you will get it. The reason why the Orthodox Church is more alike than anyone else in how the church was 2000 years ago is because it doesn’t cater to peoples opinions that they don’t have 2000 years of experience to back it up, while so many other churches bend over and let women and gay bishops take over. It’s silly enough that male only monasteries are forced by non orthodox people to make them permit women their, its like telling permitting women in the male locker room and shower area. The Bishop in Israel was booted out because he was in charge of a subordinate which was not a priest but a worker and the worker made a deal with the Jews their to rent or sell the 2 biggest properties in Israel. The church owns the land that the Israel government sits. The guy got booted for that and an investigation on which 2 Jewish guys didn’t the deal and the person that sold it since there was some deals that the Israelis did to take the land from the church. But Israel have taken a lot of land and it won’t stop their and they will use the ends to justify the means which is the opposite of what Christianity says to be that the means justify the ends. This kind of antichristian ideology is also done by the protestant church and without it would have not existed but many do not see this which goes against Christ and also it brings more bad things which have hurt Christianity many around the world. Do you say it’s bad that 97% of Greece is Christian Orthodox? That’s where Christianity flourished and where the apostles lives after Christ since they knew that is the best place to be preserved since Christianity was similar to their beliefs which my other post about the origins of Christianity explains it. Protestants could have went into Greece while they were slaves and Christian orthodoxy was not allowed for close to 500 years which the Catholics, Jewish, and Muslim religion help make them slaves. Everyone finds it a miracle that orthodoxy is still alive after the constant attacks and foreign rulers it mostly had. The same thing with the other Orthodox countries including Russia that has communism that didn’t allowed Christian orthodoxy. If that happened to protestant countries they would convert kind of like how many of them have been wiped out or converted to Muslim since their faith was as strong as their religion. Hey look it up for yourself and see. I agree with a Jewish rabbi in what he said that if your faith demands less then your religion is less. If you have any complaints about the Orthodox Church then you have a complaint against Christ and the apostles since it has not change its stance for what society wants, since God doesn't bend to the laws of man but people should bend to god’s laws. If people do not have faith in Christ’s words then they have no business with Christ. Even Muslim believe in Christ but they are not considered Christians, and maybe the other Christian sects might be put in the same category as them since their foundation and general actions over time in how they got power does not justify their foundation as the right path and have done the opposite of what the church stranded for. Its not non Christians that have hurt the world but people that say they are Christians. Even the crusades were used to rally Christians to attack the Orthodox Church which holds the original churches and the vast majority of religious artifacts. To say that Christ is not the only way to salvation goes against what Christ said. If the Orthodox Church "OFFICIALY" says something that contradicts what Christ said then point it out, I would like to know. If people can not see it logically which I try to point it out, since I know many do not go on that much faith since the division would have not happened in the first place, but if some try to then they do not understand the history of the church well and most are far from it. Pay attention! Lol I am no advisor or present it well but I generally know what I am talking about, but if you want an official explanation there are some sites that say. I am not a big fan of this one but it’s the Official Orthodox Church of America It has many Q&As http://www.oca.org/QAIndex.asp?SID=3 GOOD LUCK ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: ugh, but by even replying you are encouraging him to post more and even start more inflammatory threads. ----> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_cannon |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Faith_Warrior...And I think I speak for Warsong when I say this.... You're being rude! ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Oh great, your siding with War now, that's all we need is more anti-semitic babblings. How very sad. He's not even here to discuss any game/development related issues (at all) or even fellowship, just to bash everything in site on his soapbox, to create division (loose cannon for sure). Well this “Christian” (as war puts it in a recent thread) just ignores War threads at this point... but I guess his folly has become distention, perhaps? The more you guys reply, the more he will post. Fine, stick up for him, what ever.... |
Brandon Member Posts: 594 From: Kansas City, Mo, USA Registered: 02-02-2004 |
quote: Wow! All I have to say is that when I read Warsongs first post about the things that those leaders have said, it really was a painful read. Anyone who claims to be a Christian but denies Jesus in saying that He isn't the only way is either blind or a liar. They are basically calling Jesus a liar. That's horrible... One of the main problems I believe, is that many who are in the church are trying to be too world like. We are supposed to be in the world but not of it. Instead they are keeping their eyes on the world instead of on Christ, they keep a certain distance from the world, but since their eyes are fixed on the world and not Christ these "Christians" fall further away from God just as the rest of the world does. ------------------ |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
quote: dude...I was kidding. LOL! ------------------ [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited November 11, 2006).] |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
Well it was rather hard to tell, Lava. Maybe you should put a smiley or smiley in there next time, or a j/k. I love your avatar, Faith_Warrior! (did I say that already?) "It's so easy, a caveman could do it! But warsong could not, without engaging in a length and insult filled theological debate with the Geico support person on the merits of Orthodoxy over Judaism..." Warsong: "But I tell you, the Jews rejected Jesus!" "You are insulting me which in no way or did it detract from my argument and you are wrong! Why do you even have this job when you can't figure out that I am right?" "Uh, Dude... I'm just the customer support guy, like." "They rejected Jesus! Can't you understand that? I can see why it might miss if you were or are a young, but our country is going down the tubes, because of irresponsible loafers such as yourself!" "Harsh? The Bible says hell is reserved for Satan and all who follow him. I suppose you consider that harsh?!" "Ah, running away like a coward! That's what your kind always has done been doing." "I think I'll go over to Earthlink's site and talk to their support representative." ... [This message has been edited by Lazarus (edited November 11, 2006).] |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Yes, but most of the time that takes away from the sarcasim. And trust me, if I used an exclamation mark where I did, I am more than likely kidding ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: lol ok you had me really, really worried there for a moment.
quote:haha yeah, their the coolest commercials on TV. Thanks
quote: Actually the original post addresses two completely different matters simply to attack anything not of the OP's Church organization (imo). In the first case, Ted is just a man, he is capable of falling short of the mark like anyone else. Even all the apostles fell short, they all strayed, they all met the rooster in some way. The thing is they repented and moved on, this is fully acceptable. This story should not even be a big deal, but it was released just before the elections to discredit the evangelical vote and shame them to stay home and not cast their votes. This was not a new story, it was just timed to shame Christians for political gains. Sadly, some didn't get the intent of the story, they just watch too much TV and not spend enough time in the inspired and infallible word of God, the Bible. Second case is regarding apostasy. As the bible says, “in the last days many will depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons”(1Tim 4:1-2). This is a case that is non-repentative unlike the case of Ted in which realized his shortcoming and repented. There are actually many cases of some Church organizations delivering apostate teachings, but the true definition of a Christian is not what Church organization one belongs to (i.e. THE Orthodox Church), but a persons personal decision to follow Christ, alone. I mean really, why is it that some must tare down other Churches simply to promote their own? What is the good news in that? I could see good intentions simply to warn others of such teachers, but not everyone does it to simply warning others of such pitfalls, but to simple bring everyone else into the muck and stand above them. It really does not effect me concerning what Ted does with his life, I only look to Jesus as my example. And when I fall, and I have, I simply get back up and keep running the race. Just watch out for those that would stick their foot out to trip you, k? |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
quote: Haha, side with the ENEMY? NEVAH!! JK Don't worry Warsong, I don't think you're the enemy. ------------------ [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited November 11, 2006).] |
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Brandon--- Yeah I was shocked me and mad me sad of that news. I don’t care what she believes but for her to be in charge of others and push those views is what is scary. The problem is that more sects will turn to her way of thinking. :-( Other here says well no one is perfect and they still follow that. I understand that no one is perfect and make a degree of error like less than 10% but to make say something that is over 50% of what you believe is beyond an error but an entirely different ideology and they pass it off as Christianity. :| As for the rest---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." (Plato) philosopher Did anyone find out about Mr. Haggard yet in why it happened at that time? Maybe it was his political views that got him in trouble? Will anyone defend him instead of saying everyone makes errors? He denies it so it seems worth investigating. Again to follow the money is a good first lead. :-P ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut! |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
I'm definitely not say 'nahnahneenahnah... my church is better..." I'm trying let you know that no Christian group is immune from corruption, not even the Orthodox Church. But when you start implying the Orthodox church is better, that raises a red flag in my mind... But from what we both have said I think we can agree with the following: 1. This new Archbishop of the Episcopal Church is WAY OFF on her beliefs. I'm not Episcopal, so I don't understand what in the world these people are think, But as you probably know these liberal beliefs that are creeping into these churches are causing more conservative and traditional (individuals and entire diocese) to splinter off and get back to their roots. Remember, the Episcopal church is only a branch of the Anglican church, which is more conservative. 2. As far as this Evangelical leader (Haggard), corruption and sin can and does happen with members and leaders of any church. The Orthodox Church is not immune! Denial and coverup can be a BIG problem with large church organization too, the Catholic church found this out the hard way with the Priest scandal, and so did the Orthodox Church just last year. Is any church immune NO!!! (A quote from a 2005 article)
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Cool I have to take it a bit slow it seems.... ok. I understand what you are doing but it won’t work. The point is that no person is immune from SIN (corruption or other bad things) since everyone is human and everyone sins. We agree their. 1-At least we agree that it’s not right. You say you disagree with liberalism in the church but you kind of wanted that in what you said in the last post that it isn’t faith that an orthodox country is not being more liberal to let others, since it seems like you want things PC. Don’t forget that a slow compromising is what leads us further away from Christ’s teachings. If you want the church to go to original roots then you look at orthodoxy since you know they were their before anyone else. 2-As for haggard he is the head and as I said people are with sin, and it is bad to have a head of the church. As for the story that’s old, and he was as significant as an ant in an ant colony, and not a queen in an ant colony. The other 2 were head of their churches, and even Christ said everyone is equal, and only Christ can be the head of the church. Sure there are wave of catholic priest that are pedophiles since the catholic church brings those types of people in since it was a safe haven for gay men and women as many ex catholic officials have said in books and on TV. Every church had a pervert like that but it depends on how the church deals with the issue if they boot or arrest them (right) or keep them or move them around (wrong). But the thing is not that they do that but what the churches stance is on it and how it deals with it. If the pope did it and said its ok then that’s a bigger problem wouldn’t you say? Again everyone sins but to embrace an error and put it as law is bad. So is any church immune YES, is any person immune NO. Now please tell me you understand that? The church officially is not saying that it’s ok to do bad things and not believe in Christ to go to heaven which if they did then it would be an entirely different religion. The other point is that The Orthodox Church doesn’t have a one leader like the pope and it never did even when the apostle was a bishop of the Church. The bible was made democratically to come up with it, and not you just have a woman that say whatever she wants. Now can you say it’s the same? Obviously not! In conclusion, again people sin no matter who you are which is why to be the head of a religion is not right and only Christ can be the head. Even a priest, bishop, archbishop, etc are all equal, and if one fails it’s no big deal since they are all in a group to make a decisions which has been doing so for 2000 years and has not bended over like other liberal churches and has been condemned for being conservative and not compromising to modern day attacks, just like your last post that they should change in what you said. Faith- ------------------ |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
quote: ..ever so sloowwly....GOOD! Now baby step 2...... just repeat the following.... "The Orthodox Church is made up of people, AND since people sin, the Orthodox church is no more immune from corruption than <INSERT PROTESTANT CHURCH DENOMINATION HERE> as was pointed out to me by coolj and others. Also, since both coolj and I find it hard to misinterpret the requirements of our church officials as stated in I Timothy 3:1 and elsewhere, we find it bad that entire groups have done just so." Warsong - take a look at the beliefs and creeds of the majority of protestant churches, you will no doubt come to the startling conclusion that they are, if anything, MORE conservative that the Orthodox Church. Most take a strict and literal reading of the bible since things like praying to the Saints and the usage of Icons are not referenced in the Bible, thus not included in services and worship. I feel our basic (from the Bible) beliefs are very similar. But, if I was to become an Orthodox Christian I believe the hardest thing for me would be trying to understand, apply and follow the practices and beliefs of the Orthodox Church that aren't specified or even mentioned as acts of worship in the Bible. You see, for most protestants, adding requirements to what is not specified in the Bible is a form of libralization of the Church, since the Bible IS our fundamental instruction book. |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
i want to know where the praying to the saints and all that came into play? or the priests/"fathers"(mathew 23:9)/(hebrews 7) wearing long robes(luke 20:46) and saying big wrote up prayers(mathew 23:14) came into play? i wish we all would just study the bible, after praying and living right, and would simply follow what it said along with the specific day to day instructions we recieved from the Holy Ghost. if only this flesh would die. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Homer's Brain: Use reverse psychology. Homer: Oh, that sounds too complicated. Homer's Brain: Okay, don't use reverse psychology. Homer: Okay, I will! (Homer) |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
and remember...... ....this guy lost his instruction book Don't loose YOUR'S !!! |
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Cool You just want things twisted your way. You are not admitting that to have 1 leader to be head of the religion is wrong. You are not admitting that an individual should not by himself dictate what the church should do since he can be wrong. It’s obvious that no “ONE” is perfect but to say that Christ “general” institution of the church is as wrong as the maker then that just proves our case that people are infallible and only Christ and his actions are not. “When the papacy defined itself as infallible (First Vatican Council, 1870), the gulf between East and West grew wider.” Do you understand this? Here is a quote to help explain it to you more “The infallibility of the church validates the authority of tradition on a par with that of Scripture. Moreover, tradition established both canon and interpretation of that Scripture and thus takes logical precedence over it.” Ps. Don’t tell me you were around when that show was on the air, better yet I don't want to know. ------------------ |