General Christian Discussions

Wutcha think? – Goop2

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I just thought of something... in the youth convention they had some stuff from Lincon Park, and Adam Sandler... is this realy right to do? Ive also heard about people using the wizard from LoTR for church uses. Its suposedly a Christian story because of the Good v Evil thing. I think its wrong to do that sort of thing. What do you guys think?

------------------
------------------------
This has been a Goop2 production

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
hmmm....
goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
oh... never thought of it like that..... good answer!

------------------
------------------------
This has been a Goop2 production

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
I think it is alright to use analogies to parrallel things.

------------------
The learned man knows that he is ignorant - Victor Hugo

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
I've been told that the LOTR theme was based off of the Gospel, but in a parable type of way. It even ends with "Return of the King". We are God's 'precious' etc... I've been told this but I, *cough*, need to watch and read LOTR myself... Yes, I have been under a rock.

------------------
If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

en972

Member

Posts: 562
From: NOT TELLING!
Registered: 08-27-2004
Linkin park is awsome. I dont see anything wrong with it

------------------
Keep the holy day sacred.......halllllllukan

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Its not christian music though... and Adam Sandler is DEFINATLY not Christian!

------------------
------------------------
This has been a Goop2 production

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
Its not christian music though... and Adam Sandler is DEFINATLY not Christian!


Ever since Adam and Eve ate from the tree of good and evil humans have infact seen the good and evil. We just have to pray for God to keep our eyes open.
I'm just saying this because I have once asked questions even I knew the answers my self.
I hope I'm not just too boring here but that came from the heart.

God bless.

------------------
Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

kiwee

Member

Posts: 578
From: oxfordshire, england
Registered: 04-17-2004
quote:
oh... never thought of it like that..... good answer!

hehe, that made me laugh

anyway, tolkien is a christian, so i guess it would be fine

------------------
I Am God's Kid!!

[This message has been edited by kiwee (edited June 27, 2005).]

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by kiwee:

anyway, tolkien is a christian, so i guess it would be fine

True but we don't know what kind of Christian... And the LOTR movies aren't straigth from he's writings.
I wonder if it's wrong assumption to say that they have make it 'modern'.


------------------
Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

[This message has been edited by Jari (edited June 27, 2005).]

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
hmmm....


now that i've had time to think it about it some more, i think it is wrong. i can understand the reason for using those methods (it is quite common in youth outreach actually), but it is close to being deceitful. in a way, this type of thing amounts to sponsorship, as if it is being approved. in no way should the church or a christian approve of things that are not beneficial - either spiritually, mentally, physically, etc. my perspective is that outreach can be done without having to lower one's standards. it isn't that we are better than anyone else, just that we know how to overcome the traps of this world - those things that pull us down and drag us into a lifestyle that eventually pits us against righteousness, ultimately taking us back to before we became believers and followers of God. these things can be stumbling blocks, not that they always are, but it is something to beware of - especially in outreach where everyone is a weaker brother/sister. for those who have wrestled with the flesh and arrived at a place where they have their priorities straight (on God and not anything else) it isn't so much of an issue. but in the context of what you said, yes, i believe it is an issue.
goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Hey that answers even better! Thats kinda what I had in mind. I think we can make our own stuff to help with ministries. They were using it in a good way, but it was still the same secular stuff. And Adam Sandler is still a dirtbag. He is very much agianst what were taught in church, so why would we encourage people to listen to him?

------------------
------------------------
This has been a Goop2 production

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
for one, truth is truth, regardless of who says it.

I wouldn't say it's wrong, unless it's clearly stated in the bible to be so, although it could be wrong for some people.(possibly the eating-meat-sacrificed-to-idols syndrome).
However, I can't see enough benefits to outweigh the risks in using the work of Adam Sandler, and such.
LOTR, I see no problem with, and tolkien stated that it is a christian work. lotta parallels there to compliment and help explain elements of the bible, etc.
my standpoint is just pray about it.

------------------
Soterion Studios

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
1. LotR does carry many things similar with religion. I may not be religious at all but I believe that making a connection to your audience is the best way to keep their attention so they'll learn something. Connecting to LotR would keep the younger audience in tune so they learn more. If you decide that it is not a good method then you're basically throwing away their attention.

2. Linkin Park sucks because they pass their music off as Rock or Metal where as its so computerized and altered that it is basically techno. They fell into the mainstream and people listen to their stuff because MTV tells them to. Don't let religion block what you listen to. I've heard music from all genres and the best stuff (in my comment) to listen to is not religious in any way.

------------------
So are all Christians this annoying or did something attract them all to this corner of the internet?

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Yeah, I like both actualy... and no, Christians are usualy not this annoying, but when they see a guy like you they break out the halos

------------------
------------------------
This has been a Goop2 production

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
Yeah, I like both actualy... and no, Christians are usualy not this annoying, but when they see a guy like you they break out the halos


Well obviously. But I peek at other topics I havn't "tainted" yet and look at the crap spat out... I probably will change that soon because I wrote to get my point more globally across during the Quick Question topic.

------------------
So are all Christians this annoying or did something attract them all to this corner of the internet?

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
WHAT?! Crap spat out HERE?! Geeze, I should look at more of the topics :P

------------------
------------------------
"Its one of those... Chevy vans..." "Um, we do not have 24 hour road service" - Audio Adrenaline

HeistheOne

Member

Posts: 26
From: PA, USA
Registered: 06-24-2005
I want to start by saying I'm really glad to have found a place like this on the web. I make that point because it supports my view; we are the Christian Coders Network right? So I agree, for the most part, with nfektious and those unanimous to (him/her?)--I believe that we are certainly more than able (by God's power) to create plenty of ministerial tools; i.e. art (of all forms), communities, crazy places like this where we get to find God in ASCII and UBB. Places, people, events like these can be made so beneficial to all of His children. I do believe that some, while still secular, "stuff" can be interpreted in a Christian way.
I'll give a modern example, but seriously... the parables ought to be enough to convince one of that. Would mustard seeds really be even kind of spiritual if Jesus didn't compare us to them? Anyway, modern secular to Christian conversion:

e.g. Straylight Run lyrics

so, sing me something soft
sad and delicate
or loud and out of key
sing me anything

This can easily be taken as a good model for worship, analogous to the idea that it's not how you worship but that you do--even "bad" voices can sing to the Lord.

Quite honestly, I think in order to be aware, true, and responsible as followers of God we really have to remain conscious of what kept us down to begin with: sin. Sometimes I listen to the secular music I own just to remember what life used to be like before I realized the offer of salvation (which had been there all along). Not that I consider that a sin, the listening, but I think about some of what the lyrics stand for... and I realize that I a) didn't pay enough attention and/or b) really had some bad ideas. And some stuff just doesn't have a lot to offer the spiritually inclined... porn? If anyone has a Christian application for that one, I'm thoroughly impressed. In all, secular is not always synonymous with sin, but obviously it can be.

So basically, it's up to us to use anything and everything we can, I believe, to the spiritual advantage of all of this family we have everywhere. God's certainly willing to help, but we have to exercise our gift (of free will) and choose to start working at it. That's why I like this place... it's a place to start--with people, projects, friendships, etc. I'm going to go sleep now; it's after two a.m. in this part of Creation. God bless all of you

------------------
Let Him guide you... He's got the map.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I would just be disgusted if anyone came up with Christian porn...

------------------
------------------------
"Its one of those... Chevy vans..."
"Um, we do not have 24 hour road service"
"What? What do you mean? its not even dark yet!"
"We do not have 24 hour road service" - Audio Adrenaline

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I came across a Christian Swinger site. it was funny to read their reasoning.

something like "you see, when the bible says 'wife,' it really means... ... and we are supposed to love our neighbors..."

------------------
Soterion Studios

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
Quite honestly, I think in order to be aware, true, and responsible as followers of God we really have to remain conscious of what kept us down to begin with: sin. Sometimes I listen to the secular music I own just to remember what life used to be like before I realized the offer of salvation

I do understand what you mean here. And I agree for the most part. But also, I might add that none of us have made it yet and we still have sin and problems that God is working out in our lives. I think that more so we should be thinking on Who has released us from the prison that we were in, and then give thanks to the Lord for what He has done.

quote:

And some stuff just doesn't have a lot to offer the spiritually inclined... porn? If anyone has a Christian application for that one, I'm thoroughly impressed.

There is a Christian application. I think the most qualified person to help those who are in porn, or are addicted to porn, would be someone who once lived that way, but has since been saved and set free by Jesus Christ. And the application would be their testimony. Your own testimony is the most powerful witnessing tool that you can ever have.


quote:
I came across a Christian Swinger site. it was funny to read their reasoning.
something like "you see, when the bible says 'wife,' it really means... ... and we are supposed to love our neighbors..."

Ya know, ... that is like a good example of how people can quote the Bible out of context to make it say what they want it to say! The enemy is very good at that.


------------------
If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited July 07, 2005).]

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
1. Christian Porn - Isn't that like an Oxy Moron or something?
2. "Crap spat out" - More of a personal outlook on the situation then a public point of view... I think you'd agree.

------------------
So are all Christians this annoying or did something attract them all to this corner of the internet?

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
2. "Crap spat out" - More of a personal outlook on the situation then a public point of view... I think you'd agree.

Could you explain what you mean here? I totally don't follow...

------------------
If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
His opinion of what's been said on some topics.
goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
seems to me that crap spat out would be a global view... whatever.

------------------
------------------------
"Its one of those... Chevy vans..."
"Um, we do not have 24 hour road service"
"What? What do you mean? its not even dark yet!"
"We do not have 24 hour road service" - Audio Adrenaline

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
I'm all for being selective in what we use for Christian youth groups etc.. Frankly, most of what I've seen go on in youth groups etc is worthless. Not necessarily because it is unchristian but simply because it is pointless. They spend all their time trying to do "cool" "xtreme" or "edgy" things rather than teaching truth. Who cares if you can eat pudding out of a diaper or have people spit in a cup and drink then drink it (both activities I've heard at "youth groups").

I don't know much about linkin park, so I can't talk much about them, though I do like some of their music.

Adam sandler.. well I think just about anything can be used as a teaching medium.. it just depends on what your trying to teach. Are you just tossing in adam sandler because "the kids these days like him" or do you have something valuable to bring out or illustrate from one of his movies?


I am actually a fan of using things like LoTR, Braveheart, gladiator etc in teaching examples, even Starwars.. because although they aren't perfect, they do have many great lessons in them, and many great impact moments that can be used to teach good truths.

As for tolkien.. he was a very devout Christian, a Roman Catholic which no doubt will earn some people's ire. I have great respect for the man in his personal life and his views on faith and religion. On top of that he is probably the greatest story teller of the 20th century.
Its not true that LoTR was written or intended to be allegorical for the bible. In fact Tolkien had an extreme dislike for allegory.. However, Tolkien believed that 'myth' was a great medium for telling stories, and conveying truths. He recognized that mythic stories, or fairy stories speak to humans on a level that dry factual accounts never do. So he wrote his books to be good stories.. and stories about true things, despite the fact that they are fantasy. By true things I mean true concepts like, the beauty of life, the sorrow of a world that is slowly fading and passing into a lesser age, the corrupting influence of the desire for power, the subtle nature of the divine hand at work in our lives, courage, self sacrifice. The list goes on.

The movies are but a shadow of the books.. however, even the movies are great. As I sit here I can't think of a sermon I've heard in my 30 years in church that has touched me, or motivated me in my responsability before God as much as the simple two minute conversation between Frodo and Gandalf when Gandalf says "so do all who see such times.. but that is not for them to decide. all we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us."
We do need to be cautious about what we bring into youth groups, and even more so about what we do with the time we have in youth groups. It would be foolish, I think, though to not use things like this as resources because they are great tools to communicate truths which otherwise never in and are soon forgotten.

------------------
-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.