General Christian Discussions

is being catholic Christian? – eucaliptus_boy

eucaliptus_boy

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From: Sydney, N.S.W, Australia
Registered: 05-08-2005
ok im 13, im an OZ, and im Catholic, and by my understanding, (also going to a private anglican school, Christianity is the faith in god, ok I beleive in god, but i dont know if this fact is true, can someone help me, also I do listen to some heavy partly satonic music so, would that make me non christian.. anyway this is an origional website, i mean like christianity and programming, I am a very amature programmer only knowing basic Flash really, but I do computer studies at school so watch out for me in teh future! If you can answer/ or comment to these please E-mail me on eucaliptusboy@gmail.com, thanks mate!

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Only god may judge me

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
ok im 13, im an OZ, and im Catholic, and by my understanding, (also going to a private anglican school, Christianity is the faith in god, ok I beleive in god, but i dont know if this fact is true, can someone help me,

Sure. Actually, Christianity is faith in Christ. I suggest finding some free time and find a Bible to read . Then you will better understand what Christianity is about.

quote:
also I do listen to some heavy partly satonic music so, would that make me non christian..

No, but it's not helping you any. There's plenty of other music out there, especially by Christians. What type of music is it? Perhaps we can find something you'll like .

quote:
anyway this is an origional website, i mean like christianity and programming, I am a very amature programmer only knowing basic Flash really

No problem .

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6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Actualy my Mom told me that Catholics are TECHNACLY "Christians" but not actualy Christian... its ok though, its just some screwy stuff that they beleive in... you know... stuff that isnt actualy in the Bible. If your this concerned just pray about it.

BTW: Im Pentecostal... heh... just had to say that

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
Hmm, the only thing that gets me is the Catholics worship Mother Mary an awful lot.

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The learned man knows that he is ignorant - Victor Hugo

eucaliptus_boy

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From: Sydney, N.S.W, Australia
Registered: 05-08-2005
Thanks very much guys, it's hars to describe my way of being catholic, its like cos I go to an anglican school I learn alot that waym plus my parents dont really inforce religion greatly, school is my source of understanding... I have a few times attempted to pick up a bible and read it but being a typical teen, I never get a chance... again I thank you all, the music i listen to BTW is stuff like Rammstein, HIM, Metallica, Children of Bodom. What are some good christian bands.. that are rock.. but not liek really lite rock, like the bands that play pretty sweet christian beets! AGAIN THANK YOU ALL!

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Only god may judge me

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Hey yes catholics are christians

There are alot of catholics who don't really know what they believe, and some who believe weird things.. but then that is true of almost all christian churches so

being a christian means you have faith in Jesus Christ and you try to live as he taught us, and to serve him.

Listening to the music you mentioned may not be the best.. but then, i listen to metallica, and I have listened to ramstien once or twice but its a bit heavy for my taste... and a bit... german

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Hey yes catholics are christians

There are alot of catholics who don't really know what they believe, and some who believe weird things.. but then that is true of almost all christian churches so

being a christian means you have faith in Jesus Christ and you try to live as he taught us, and to serve him.

Listening to the music you mentioned may not be the best.. but then, i listen to metallica, and I have listened to ramstien once or twice but its a bit heavy for my taste... and a bit... german

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I like DC Talk... but they broke up leik... 100 years ago! Newsboys are OK... well.. some might think their dumb, but... whatever. I just started listening to music. Ive never listened to metalica so I dont know how heavy heavy is heavy heavily... ... ..... ... ya.

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
Somebody should make a "what music do you listen to thread".

Surely there's someone here who doesn't listen to all that heavy stuff.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Country? sick...

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Try Creed.

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6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited May 12, 2005).]

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
project 86.
www.project86.com

love that band. hard rock.
P.O.D. is pretty good.. like them.
Demon Hunter.. good.
Disciple, good, but can get old after a while.

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Soterion Studios

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
Country? sick...


You like country Goop2?

Realm Master

Member

Posts: 1971
From: USA
Registered: 05-15-2005
Catholics (sorry for my spelling if i spelled it wrong) are Christains, yes, as long as they beilve that Jesus is the son of god and that he died for our sins.

Haha, big talk coming form a guy who isn't sure he's doing anything right in god's eyes.

I know Jesus is the Son of God, and i really wanna be God's servant, but im not sure if i'm doing it right.

To be speicific: I'm not sure if im really grateful for what God has done for me, because i've lived in a Christan family and grown up here, and my life is good, im just...arrrg...

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God rules.

...no duh

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
RAMMSTEIN
GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
I used to live in Ramstein...
Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Realm Master:

Haha, big talk coming form a guy who isn't sure he's doing anything right in god's eyes.

I know Jesus is the Son of God, and i really wanna be God's servant, but im not sure if i'm doing it right.

To be speicific: I'm not sure if im really grateful for what God has done for me, because i've lived in a Christan family and grown up here, and my life is good, im just...arrrg...


Cheer up... Living in Christian family is a great blessing. But it's also understandable that you have troubles being grateful.
Read Luke starting from chapter 7 verse 37.
Focus on good things and don't always do what you want to do and you might actualy see that you have been doing something wrong. Or fast a some time just to see how wonder full blessing it is to have food, as example.
Finding the right way to serve God isn't easy if you think about your self. I speak from experience now.

God bless you brother.

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
I don't mean to judge any one but don't catholic kneel before statue of virgin mary? We are allowed to kneel only before God and have no statues or idols.
This really bothers me about catholics.

You should check out this site, it has some radical statements which I cannot deny:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanism_in_the_vatican.htm

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
I must say, that website was very disturbing, and it literally made me sick to my stomach. But, I wouldn't go as far to say that everyone who is catholic isn't Christian, because I know some Christians who were raised Catholic. But I do think that many of those whom are sincere in Catholocism and have a real relationship with Christ, I think don't know a lot about the Roman Catholic System and how much of it is heresy.

I was shocked when I heard that John Paul said that Christianity, Judaism and Islam worship the same God. And he even kissed the Koran. I have heard of Preists who have accepted the Gospel, and are actually teaching it privatly within the Roman Catholic Church. But they don't last too long after this is found out. Most of the time they are expelled from the entire system.

Please take note, I am not saying that people that are Roman Catholic are not Christians. I am however saying that the Roman Catholic System is not Christian. Actually I won't be suprised if even the False Prophet himself turns out to be a future Pope I haven't noticed the upside down cross before, but now that I've seen it, I don't like the looks of it. I won't say too much more here because I have much to study on the Roman Catholic System. But what I've seen so far is horrible.

What many fail to realize is that Jesus, the Son of God, didn't come to earth to establish a religion, but He came to restore the broken relationship between God and mankind! Religion may be part of that, but in reality it is much more.


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If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited May 17, 2005).]

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
I was raised with all the stuff about catholicism being pagan and occult etc.. however, the truth is that most of that is anti-catholic propaganda.

there are some catholics who have gone off the deep end.. just like there are protestants who have.

You have to look at what the catholic church actually teaches, not what a bunch of rabbid anti-catholics say, what conspiracy theorists say etc. Most of the time when you find out what the catholic church itself actually teaches.. it doesn't resemble what most protestants say about it. The things protestants do take issue with are often times misunderstandings or cultural issues.

For example kneeling to a statue or an icon. To many protestants this seems like an act of worship.. yet in most of the world's cultures and through out history kneeling is not an act of worship, merely a show of respect. Catholics and orthodox believe that physical things like statues or icons can represent spiritual things, and spiritual ideas, so when they kneel to a statue, they are not worshiping the statue, nor even what the statue represents, but they are paying respect to the holy thing that the statue reminds them of.

As for catholicism relating to other religions. The catholic church believes that it is easier to witness the gospel to people if you look at the common things between their religion and the gospel, rather than focusing on the differences. Thus the way they opperate is to point to the common things between religions, and create an atmosphere of friendly relations that will enable the gospel to be more easily spread. This is a tactic that is time honored and indeed, found within Paul's teachings in the scripture.


The website's comments on the upside down cross are typical of the reactionism and ignorance of this kind of propaganda. Historicaly when Peter was executed by the romans when he was informed that he was going to be crucified, he protested that he was unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus had. As a result he requested to be crucified upside down. Thus for more than a thousand years the upside down cross in christianity has been a symbol of Peter's martyrdom and his humility deeming himself not even worthy to die in the same manner as Jesus.
This is of course not to mention the fact that on the website the photo's of the upside down cross in the papal throne look like they were photo shopped, and the two different photo's don't even match. The background behind the throne in the first one is maroon and the arm of the throne appears to extend further out than the back of the throne.. where as in the second picture there is nothing maroon behind the throne at all and the arm is clearly several inches in from the outer edge of the back of the throne.

The catholic church did not cooperate with the Nazi's during WWII to bring about the Holocaust. In fact, in the lead up to WWII the catholics in Germany were a major opponent of the Nazi party. During WWII the Pope actually hid thousands of Jews inside the vatican to protect them from being rounded up.

I've heard numerous variations of the connections between catholicism and the "mystery religions of babylon" the problem is that a good deal of the famous nimrod connection is fabricated... and if you were to actually believe the story fully, you'd have to toss out the virgin birth, and both the death and resurection of Jesus as they are also duplicated in the "mystery religions of babylon".

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

[This message has been edited by simon_templar (edited May 18, 2005).]

eucaliptus_boy

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From: Sydney, N.S.W, Australia
Registered: 05-08-2005
I think theres people who hate me from starting this topic, i was overwhelemed by the support of teh first feww replies but now i want to change my religion from reading http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanism_in_the_vatican.htm this stuff, i wanted to except god and otehrs, not have a leader who sits by an upside down cross! yet i have never bowed to a statue, i have saluted a statue of Cpt. Jmaes cook (he discoverd my country, Australia).. any way thank you for your attention!

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Only god may judge me

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
I moved my post to a new topic since it got long and I didn't want to take away from the discussion going on here.
http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum9&topic=000198

[This message has been edited by coolj (edited May 18, 2005).]

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by eucaliptus_boy:
I think theres people who hate me from starting this topic

Wow, no one hates you! I sure don't and it's not your fault if other catholics sin.

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by simon_templar:

For example kneeling to a statue or an icon. To many protestants this seems like an act of worship.. yet in most of the world's cultures and through out history kneeling is not an act of worship, merely a show of respect.

respect = glorifying ?

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8

What about statues of Mary?

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" -Exodus 20:4 ...

There shouldn't even be a statue of Mary or any other saint.
And it's just bowing down in front of them thats sin.

... Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

quote:
Originally posted by simon_templar:
The website's comments on the upside down cross are typical of the reactionism and ignorance of this kind of propaganda. Historicaly when Peter was executed by the romans when he was informed that he was going to be crucified, he protested that he was unworthy to die in the same manner as Jesus had. As a result he requested to be crucified upside down. Thus for more than a thousand years the upside down cross in christianity has been a symbol of Peter's martyrdom and his humility deeming himself not even worthy to die in the same manner as Jesus.

Yeah but doesn't that make them respect/worship peter as well then? Well I don't known why they want to have cross like that but it doesn't seem like right thing to do. But that reminds me, don't catholics call priests like pope father?

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

quote:
Originally posted by simon_templar:
This is of course not to mention the fact that on the website the photo's of the upside down cross in the papal throne look like they were photo shopped, and the two different photo's don't even match. The background behind the throne in the first one is maroon and the arm of the throne appears to extend further out than the back of the throne.. where as in the second picture there is nothing maroon behind the throne at all and the arm is clearly several inches in from the outer edge of the back of the throne.

I think it's just different place and event where those photos we're taken.


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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

[This message has been edited by Jari (edited May 18, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Jari (edited May 18, 2005).]

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
I had no idea that prposing to someone by kneeling is such an awful sin! :: Major Sarcasm :: I think it is viewed more as kneeling in respect, not glorifying. There is a difference. On a technicality, Mary's body is not in Heaven yet, right? We are only reunited with our physical bodies after Christ comes, so technically the graven image is not of something in Heaven, eh? Ah, well, I wish people wouldn't blow things majorly out of proportion.

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The learned man knows that he is ignorant - Victor Hugo

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
After further review, I will say that there is a lot on that site that I don't agree with. A LOT! Especially the way that they talk there. When people get into specifics like that and pride begins to take hold, it's easy to begin to fall away into cult type teachings. And I think the whole KJV only thing is ridiculous. But I do think that from some study that a large portion of the Roman Catholic traditions are heresy. And it's not the little things either it's huge things. I don't understand what it can accomplish to pray to the Apostles or to Mary the mother of Jesus? I just don't get it. I don't think that Mary can put in a word to Jesus for us. Instead we should pray to the one who saves our souls. He's not too busy. And He knows our hearts desire as well. Also, there are other things that I think are heresy, like Purgatory, Infant Baptism, Eucharist (literal flesh and blood), and Penance.

I know that there are some good priests and Catholic churches which do preach the gospel, but I don't think that the whole Roman Catholic system is Christian. From learning on some history it seems so far that the Roman Catholic Religion could indeed be a form of an ancient pagan religion which gave different names to the icons. One huge recent heretical statement that I found undeniable was that John Paul II actually said that those who practice Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all worshiping the same God. And he even kissed the Koran. I don't see how that can be taken any other way... I can sort of understand wanting to relate to a different culture so that you can reach them, but the line of compromise must be drawn somewhere, and I think that was way over the line.

I don't know exactly why, but the Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Church both seem to remind me of the Pharisees in Jesus' day. But please don't take me as a final authority or anything, I'm only sharing my opinion here, and I'm just starting to really look into it more seriously. I know that there can be hypocrites and false teachers in any denomination. But the thing is that the Roman Catholic church like is this huge kingdom or something, and the 'pope' is the infallible king. Millions around the world would do whatever the 'pope' asked at the drop of a dime. That man has way to much power.

eucaliptus_boy no one here hates you! Not at all! It's good to look at what you are taught and to compare it to what God's word says. When the traditions we are taught are contrary to Scripture, then we are forced to decide which is true, the tradition, or God's Word.

Here is a much better explanation: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/1776

I'll admit that I don't know much about the history and such, but my main focus is to preach the gospel to the lost, so if something isn't directly contrary to Scripture then I won't worry too much about it. But I do recommend that if you are saved and in the Catholic Church, then pray to God, and ask Him if He wants you to stay there or not, you could be a light, and the many who are only practicing religion and keeping sacraments will actually hear the gospel through you, and find out how awesome that being born again and living in that freedom of Christ really is. And above all, test everything against Gods Word, the Holy Bible!

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If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
About the KVJ-1611 as only reliable Bible: I noticed some differences in Bibles that actually change the message which obviously isn't good thing at all. But did the message change from right to wrong or from wrong to right that I don't know and suggest that you all to keep your mind open, pray for God to tell what is he's word and what is not.

And if you want to do some study you can use e-Sword to compare Bibles easily.

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1


And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004

Kneeling isn't an act of worship, or giving glory, its a show of humility out of respect for someone or something.
Lack of respect has actually become a big problem among protestants exactly because of attitudes like this. We've been in such a hurry not to show respect or glorify anything other than God that in many cases we've gone out of our way to be disrepsectful to the point of profanity. This attitude gradually has transfered even to God himself thus the protestant view of God (in my experience) has lost much of its sanctity and holiness.
We need to respect the sacredness of things that God has sanctified, or we ultimately lose our respect for the sacredness of God himself.

As for Peter. I don't agree with all the catholic views on peter but i don't think they are guilty of worshiping him, or the pope.

As for the comments in matthew 23:9, this passage is warning against priests and teachers who use their honored position to serve themselves and their apetite for glory rather than to serve the people of God. Admittedly this has been a problem in the church through out its entire history.. but not in the catholic church only.. in protestant churches across the world you will find pastors who routinely exalt themselves and abuse their position and authority for personal gain. Just turn on the TV and you'll see plenty.

What you call your spiritual teacher or leader is not the point of the passage, do you think its any better to call them your shepard? (which is what pastor means) or your minister? the passage not only includes father but also teacher and master. have you called anyone in your church a teacher recently?
The point of the passage is not what title you give your leaders, its how the leaders act. Do they follow their own teachings? Do they live as servants to the people? Or do they pile unnecessary burdens on the people and exalt themselves?

incidentaly, incase anyone has ever wondered.. the reason that the catholics (and orthodox and anglicans) use the terms "priest" and "father" is that in the bible this office is described using the greek word Presbytur which means "elder". The word priest was a shortened form of the word presbytur. So the english word meaning priest is a derivative of the greek for "elder". Since these men were called "elders" and were usualy older men, it was common practice to refer to them as "father" due to their position as the elders of the community. Much the same as was done in american indian culture.

as for statues of Mary, I would agree they probably take this too far. I'm not comfortable with it. This doesn't however, indicate that there is a grand conspiracy within the catholic church to worship satan. It means there is one particular doctrine/practice that has gotten out of whack. You will find such flaws in almost every church.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

JohnMcLernon_77

Member

Posts: 11
From: Northern Ireland
Registered: 05-31-2004
Hey there all. I've just been reading over all the entries about the topic of are catholics Christian? I want to start off by telling you that I was raised in the catholic church for most of my life. I was an alter boy for a while and attended different catholic schools. I became a born again Christian when I was 17 and am now 28. I'm a Christian not a prodestant or catholic. Now that I've told you who I am, I'll go onto the point at hand.

The rc church is not a Christian church. There are many reasons why this is true. There is a book that is published by the rc church called pillar of fire, pillar of truth that explains the doctrinal beliefs that are held and taught by priests.

The first issue I will start on is the stand point of the Bible. The Bible is God's Word, it is truth, absolute truth (2 Timothy 3:15-17). The rc church does not hold this notion to be true. They believe that the Bible is God's Word but that it is not the whole authority on Christianity. They would teach that the words and beliefs of the 'church fathers' are as much as an authority if not more than the Bible. Now a lot of the stuff these men believed and taught were way out there. Tertullian believed that you couldn't have all your sins forgiven while on this earth, like murder or adultery to name a few. Now Jesus forgave ppl who were caught in the act of adultery (John 8:3-12). Justin Martyr believed that many of the greek philosophers that taught about an after life were Christians. Now this isn't true either. I just mentioned them to give you a taste of the people who set up a lot of the rc churches doctrines.

A major issue is to do do with the method of salvation. According to the rc church there are three or four places that ppl go to after they die. Heaven, Hell, Purgatory or limbo. Purgatory is a sort of prison time where you work off your sins before going to heaven. In the bible there are only two of these places mentioned, Heaven and Hell(Luke 16:19-31 & many others). The way you are taught as a catholic is that you can never be sure of where you are going but doing 'good deeds' and fulfilling the sacriments will get you higher up the ladder in purgatory, and the prayers of your family and friends on earth will get your sins cleansed faster. The Bible teaches very differently than this. God teaches that none of us will ever be 'good enough' for heaven and that we are saved by His grace, by faith in Jesus alone for our salvation (Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12-15; John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9)

Another point is about the communion service wafer being literally the flesh and the wine being literally the blood of Jesus. This ordinary wafer and wine become the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ after the priest prays a certain prayer. The priest is 'redoing' the sacrifice. The Bible tells us that the sacrifice of Jesus was done once for everyone and will never be done again (Hebrews 10:10-12).

Another point is that of confessing your sins to a priest and they forgive them and give you a penance because of them. This idea is brought about from taking a verse out of context about the apostles remitting sins and the standpoint of two men that lived in the 3rd century roman empire, Cyprian of Carthage and the then bishop of Rome. At the time there was a persecution of Christians in the empire, and many people denied being Christians, bought fake documents saying they sacrificed to the roman idols, went into hiding and some stayed true. After the persecution ended many of those who fled or denied the Lord wanted to join the church again. There were many who said yes and many who said no. The one who said no was the bishop of rome and the one who said yes was Cyprian. Now Cyprian's way of dealing with the issue was with the idea of penance, a period of time where people could prove they were sincere by doing lots of 'good works'. Hence the idea of saying prayers so many times to make atonement for your sins.

Holding Mary and other people in such a place of worship, glory and honour. The RC church teaches that Mary remained a virgin for her whole life. This is plainly not true (Matthew 12:47). The Lord Jesus had half brothers & sisters. One of His brothers was James. Also, they teach that ppl should hold her as blessed and holy. This is also not biblical (Luke 11:27, 28). The rc church also teaches ppl to pray to the archangel michael. The praying to or worshipping of them is not biblical (Revelation 22:8-9). People are told that its good to pray to other ppl apart from God. A priest once told me that we ask friends on earth to pray for us, so we can do the same for our 'friends' in heaven. The Bible says other wise.

There are times throughout the year when certain days are holy and as a catholic you are told not to eat meat, apart from fish. This is totally unbiblical aswell. God told us that all meats are good and none are to be abstained from for religious matters (1 Timothy 4:2-4). These verses also bring in the idea of priests not marrying.

A couple of recap points. Is the catholic church a Christian church? No, alot of its teachings and history are not biblically true. Can a catholic person become a Christian? Yes they can, anyone can by putting their faith in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation. Are any of us worthy of salvation and God's love? No, not one.

There are quite a few more issues that are either not biblically based or are heretical to the Bible. If anyone wants to go into more depth on them, feel free to e-mail me.


John

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