I've been having a hard time reconciling the fact that God is both silent and good. His silence seems so cruel. He knows EVERYTHING, but reveals so little. I personally possess a good deal of knowlege regarding general computing and most aspects of Christianity, and I LOVE answering people's questions about them. I share knowledge FREELY. But God? He'd rather just have us figure stuff out for ourselves.

Some say "everything you need to know is in God's revealed Word (the Bible)." To this I say "Bah!" Sure, God leaves a guidebook that requires extensive training just in order to read properly! Even once you've been trained in exegesis, interpreting can still be a struggle. This wouldn't be so bad if we could get a direct explanation from God on certain passages whenever we had questions. But, more often than not, when we ask Him questions, He tells us NOTHING. If my boss at K-mart never showed up to work and only left hard-to-read instructions for his employees that he never explained, he would eventually be FIRED. Not everyone is smart enough to be able to read the Bible properly for themselves (even if they did have the training), so they must depend on others to interpret for them, and that's not always very safe. Perfectly well-intentioned people misinterpret the Bible and cause lots of pain and destruction in their wake because of it; and God does nothing to correct them or stop them. No, He just expects his children to correct each other. Lots of good that does. Two Christians, both with opposing views, both believing themselves to be completely in the right, both believing that God is backing them up. It's one man's word against another's, and only time will reveal the truth... because God certainly won't reveal it.

Sure, God sometimes takes action on some situations, but it's not nearly often enough. Human parents take a far more interactive role in the lives of their children. And if they don't, it's not healthy. Everyone knows that parents shouldn't rely on babysitters or nannies all the time. But God doesn't seem to mind letting church pastors, worship leaders, and other counselors take care of all the "parenting" for Him.

I'm not sure I want to work for a person like that.

...

-Caleb

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

You must realize that the only way to know God at all, comes through faith. Faith is a must. If God revealed Himself to everyone physically and verbally where there was left no doubt at all, then there would be no need for faith anymore, and people who really aren't sincere would follow God... possibly out of fear or because they felt that they had no other choice.

When Jesus was on a boat with the disciples there was a storm and the disciples were frightened, they thought that they would surely sink! Well Jesus was just fine, and He was asleep on the boat. They woke Him saying "We're going to drown! Don't you care if we drown?" But Jesus just got up and said "shhh... be quiet." And the violent winds and waves ceased. Then Jesus said, "Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?" To this they were amazed and said, "What kind of man is this? Who is this!? Even the winds and the waves obey Him!"

My point is, that if you're going through the storm of your life, and it seems like God is asleep or just not listening. HAVE FAITH!!! Have faith that He is who He said that He is and that He is with you, that He cares for you and knows what's best. And don't think that He is routing you on from the sidelines either. Jesus is a God who takes part in His creation, He laughs with us, cries with us and even died for us! The Bible says that He learned obedience through suffering... if God's Son learned obedience this way then I don't think that we are at all exempt from it.

Something that I find so awesome about God, is that He cries when we cry, he feels our pain. Think about it. When Mary, and Martha's brother Lazerus died. After 4 days, Jesus eventually arrived on the scene. When Mary heard of this she walk out quickly to meet Him. When she reached the place where He was, she fell at His feet and said, "Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." When Jesus saw her and the other people with her crying, he was deeply touched, and He wept. Now think about that. Jesus knew what He was about to do, He knew that He was going to bring Lazerus back to life in a few moments. So why did He cry? Think if it was you in His shoes, would you have cried, knowing what you were about to do? My point here is that He isn't like some boss that never shows up or someone who doesn't interact with you, He is with you even at this moment.

You have to be really careful with your words. If you really have what the truth is, but you don't totally agree that God is working the way that you think that He should be, then deciding to "not work for Him" is indeed dangerous. That can lead to a hardened heart,... And once it goes so far, knowing the truth, you won't even care if you're lost or not.

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If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited May 07, 2005).]

Brandon: I am always careful with my words. The whole reason I'm posting is because my heart IS hardening and I'm looking for someone to give me a reason for it not to harden. I've been seriously lacking in the faith department for some time. In case you haven't picked it up, my main problem is with recieving input from God primarily from the Bible. If I could be okay there, I think everything else would fall into place. That's no small task, mind you. One issue is that the Bible isn't accessable enough. Some parts of the Bible are enriching and easy to understand. But once you've studied them all up... they aren't enriching anymore. All that you have left are difficult passages, some of which can be enriching if enough time is spent to understand them. My main point is that as time goes on, the Bible becomes less and less enriching. And if the Bible is your main source of enrichment and input, well, it gets pretty depressing after a while. Bible study isn't a relationship. The Bible isn't a love letter either. It's not written like a love letter is. Prayer combined with Bible study would be a relationship if we could actually recieve input from God while praying. But I don't think I've ever really gotten that, even though I have sought earnestly and faithfully for long periods of time on numerous occassions throughout my entire life.

Woody: Unfortunately, no, there's a bit more to it than that for me.

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

quote:

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There are plenty of passages that I have not completely understood that He has not given me input or understanding on - no matter how earnestly I sought.

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I've found that God is - surprising. Sometimes, he makes a point of giving answers at the most unexpected times in the most unexpected ways. Don't worry about them too much - they will be answered when God thinks it's time.

Matthew 6:25-34 (NIV)

quote:

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Do Not Worry

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[a]?

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

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I am only guessing here, so I may be way off the mark. Maybe you are still viewing God as 'your personal genie'? Ok, thats a bit harsh but I use it to illustrate a point. If you are 'expecting' God to answer, then thats probably why He is not!! God 'owes' us nothing! However, God does want to give us 'everything' - but we must realise this is out of His goodness and mercy.

This may seem harsh, but one of Gods reasons in creating us was to display to all of creation His manifest wisdom and glory - we are created to show creation WHO God is. God loves us (to the extent of dying for us), but we are created for HIS purpose. Also remember that our time on this earth is insignificant, and I do mean 'time' (rather than importance).

Also, as others have said, we must live by faith - and that means not having all the answers. It really comes down to what we believe in our hearts.

I would also pick up on the 'Jesus in the Storm' passage and point out that the storm was calmed. We must allow Jesus to calm our storms so that we can hear His 'still quiet' voice. Those storms are often our 'desire' to know the answers etc!! We are usualy our own worse enemy, and I think this is 'perhaps' the lesson you are learning!

I do hope that you find something useful in all these posts? Have you tried talking about this with mature chrisitians in your own Church?

Hang in their, I find it tough too. I am still learning the stuff I have just written about!! The bible is VERY useful, but we still have to learn all the lessons in the school ground of life!

God Bless,
Rhy

[This message has been edited by Rhyolite (edited May 08, 2005).]

I say hang in there, find a good buddy to hash things out with, that is what I do, or find an old person to get advice from, you'd be surprised what some of the elders have experience and learned in their time!

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The learned man knows that he is ignorant - Victor Hugo

I believe God is near, and cares, pretty much all what brandon said, and also about Faith like brandon says. I personally don't feel and hear God the same as i used to, in my case there has been a slight hardening of heart, because of being sidetracked, and also disobedient , and sin.. BUt i know that God's grace is sufficent for my weaknesses, and i am safe in His hands, and reconciled, and on the right path day by day towards the destination He has of me, though i'm only really starting to grasp the full sacrifice of taking up our own cross and following Christ.

quote:

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But once you've studied them all up... they aren't enriching anymore. All that you have left are difficult passages, some of which can be enriching if enough time is spent to understand them.

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I have this held this theory for some time (which i think is only half true for the bible says that God's word does not come back void), but the bible says to HEAR and OBEY the word of God. i believe that if we hear (sermons) or read the bible, and know it so much, and just keep hearing and reading, without obeying it, without taking it seriously and applying it to our lives, without meditating on it, then it does just become "words" to us. I personally believe if I told 50 or 100 really awesome sciptures so seriously , meditated on them, applied them to my life, i would grow in God and obedience, righteousness, the gospel and fruit HEAPS. Reading it is not just enough (i'm sure thoug hthat you have read it sincerely with devotion to Christ, this again isn't a judging, pulling down thing, hopefully a glimmer of hope) and that the Holy SPirit brings the words of the bible to LIFE.

I'm glad you are open enough to be vulnerable here,
God understands, when thomas was doubting, Jesus went out of his way to meet with thomas, and help Him with his doubt, a touching encounter, go read it, but Jesus didn't start yelling at him like "where's your faith, you useless, pathetic , faithless scoundrell, i've bee nwith you in person, told you this was going to happen, whats with you, can't you get it? etc etc". God was gracious , yes convicting - that moment i'm sure would have defined thomas ,but gracious.

God's grace is sufficent for you (and me)
even IF the major cause of it actaully is sin. If it is, get some accountibility, if its in the sexual area give me an email.
remember NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING can seperate you from the Love of Christ (go find and read that scripture and its context and medidate on that also)

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

[This message has been edited by klumsy (edited May 09, 2005).]

Thats what works for me, I hope it helps you too. Press on, and whatever happens, don't lose hope, don't stop try, and DO NOT give up searching for that special place in his arms.

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All that is gold does not glitter
Not all those who wander are lost

The old that is stong does not wither
Deep roots are not touched by the frost

From the ashes a fire shall be woken
A light from the shadows shall spring

Renewed shall be blade that was broken
And the crownless again shall be King

-Caleb

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."