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cojasma

You can't be taught it any more than you can be taught prophecy or faith.

It's a Gift of the Spirit given to believers as the Spirit sees fit.

God bless,
Matt

you can't be taught to speak in tongues because it isn't something that you do with your intellect. Paul says when you speak in tongues "your spirit is speaking mysteries to God". He also said by implication that speaking in tongues was not speaking with your understanding (ie its not your concious mind).

I'd have to say your husband is right when he says the practice of tongues is being misused. The gifts of the Spirit are given to the church for one reason and one reason only, to produce good fruit ( a very christianese thing to say). What that means is the gifts are given to make the church stronger and to make individual christians stronger. Most of the gifts are meant to build up the church by christians ministering to each other. Tongues in specific is unusual in that it is self edifying, if you speak in tongues it builds you up, but it does nothing for me.
In much of the charismatic church (and I come from a charismatic church) most of their usage of the gifts is not producing good fruit. In many cases its producing bad doctrines or out right false teachings, its producing rebeliousness etc. That tells me that there is something wrong.

Part of the problem is that the charismatic church tends to glorify the gifts themselves. The gifts are not an end, they are a means.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

religion is allowed to make up whatever stories about the past it wants with no evidence, but anytime science tries making sense of something everyone gets offended, i'm not talking about 'speaking in tongues', hell i don't even know what that is, i'm assuming it's when a religious fanatic pulls out some uber-gibberish, religious gibberish... sums up a lot

ARRRRGH! STOP MAKING UP FAIRY TALES FOR EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T UNDERSTOOD!
gg noobs

p.s. 'noob' is the best word ever

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stop making stuff up

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Crack open your Bible, flip to 1 Corinthians 12 - we didn't make this stuff up.

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i'm done with good grammar and reasonable arguments

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Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I, on the other hand, will continue to try to use good grammer and reasonable arguments .

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religion is ... a lot

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Do you have to turn every topic into your own personal anti-religion bash, CheeseStorm??

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited December 13, 2004).]

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Soterion Studios

quote:

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I'm not talking about 'speaking in tongues', hell i don't even know what that is

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but anytime science tries making sense of something everyone gets offended

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But God's very own word is not fallable. Speaking in tongues is used to edify your spirit man and is a gift from the Holy Spirit. Look up the scriptures given above and then when you have something consructive to add to the discussion, post.

God bless ya.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

p.s. and to the guy who said a noob is not a newbie, you're right. you are also, however, still a noob.

On subject: My church did a study two years ago about spiritual gifts. I can't speak toungues but I know people who do. Also, I would agree that it is a gift given from the Holy Spirit (not taught by a guy in the church). Unfortunately, I know of some churches that abuse the gift and use it as a device to show off their "spirit filled service".

okay, I'm gonna have to prove your noobness. well, your not a full noob, you don't speak in 1337. at least that's good...

anyhow:

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religion is based on entirely made up stuff

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also, science and religions aren't necessary areas or fields, they are methods. religion is a method to find God or transcendence, and science is a method of using elemination by experimentation to prove certain hypothesis wrong and thus by limiting the possible scenarios it increases the probablity of another hypothesis to be true.

later, noob.

P.S. I will have to agree with you, "noob" is an awesome word.

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Soterion Studios

There's nothing wrong with keeping society structured, I'm just saying that the Bible was written by normal humans. They wrote it from their nicely *ahem* evolved brains.

The only APA I know was like a tag team on wrestling.
Jesus was a religious dude, but while you keep telling me to prove everything, how about proving he was the son of God and whatnot?
At least science tries to make sense of things. At least it TRIES finding proof...

And damn... you want a "truly noob tactic"? How about using the same insult that I just used on you, against me... That's like Grade 4 style "I know you are, but what am I?"

Hmm, I've slipped back into decent grammar and arguments again. Gotta wrap this up... If you're going to tell me I should find proof, why don't you go find some proof of angels or God? You'd probably run into elves and leprechauns first.

Oh yeah, uhhh speaking in tongues... Who am I kidding, I'm just here to stir up trouble. My job, or hobby, really, is to serve as a target for you to focus your faith on, you know, something to work towards, convert me and such, now you have a purpose, no more mindless blablabla.

HeardTheWord, thanks for the prayers, God will be like "Rofl this CheeseStorm is a noob, I should smite him on the way to school." I know you're trying to redeem my soul or whatever, so thanks. And nah I don't believe in prayers, actions speak louder than words and such.

ArchAngel, liek omfgzzz, u no wut 1337 is?? r0x0rz!!! sryz l1ek u reelz kewel n all but roflz!!!1111oneoneone yore grahammhar iz liek teh wirzt i saw le1k since ever LOLZ

Your = possession "Your Bible fills my heart with an unholy rage."
You're = short form of 'you are' "You're a noob, ArchAngel."

Lmfao, Merry Christmas everyone, it's so wrong for me to celebrate this, but hey, presents, right? Birth of Santa?

These forums are so great, keep up the awesome work, everybody.

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Jesus was a religious dude, but while you keep telling me to prove everything, how about proving he was the son of God and whatnot?

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This would be a good place to start:
http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trilemma.html

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There's nothing wrong with keeping society structured, I'm just saying that the Bible was written by normal humans. They wrote it from their nicely *ahem* evolved brains.

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You know God wasn't involved in the process because _______?

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At least science tries to make sense of things. At least it TRIES finding proof...

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Just because you aren't trying to make sense of religious suff does not mean nobody is!

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

quote:

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Your = possession "Your Bible fills my heart with an unholy rage."
You're = short form of 'you are' "You're a noob, ArchAngel."

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The only APA I know was like a tag team on wrestling.

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If you're going to tell me I should find proof, why don't you go find some proof of angels or God?

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but then again religion is based on entirely made up stuff... let's all believe in a big bearded dude that no one's ever seen or heard from...

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Soterion Studios

ahhh the inernet...

You guys really should know better than to try and debate theology/religion with a guy who refers to Jesus as "some religious dude" and has such gems as "noob" and "1337" as mainstays of his vocabulary. Oh and who can forgot the ever present classic "r0x0rz".

Perhaps the scripture should be updated for our modern world...
such possabilities as
"cast not your pearls before 1337 d00dz"

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

[This message has been edited by simon_templar (edited December 16, 2004).]

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If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

Tribble.
Ghaboozle.
Schweenzlette.
Any resemblance to actual words, or more specifically, trademarks, is purely coincidental, and we apologize for any inconvenience or quaplubba as a result of the junkuddzle.

Le Homemade Quote - can't figure this quoting-**** out:
"see if I care. it's a stupid forum. whoever always uses correct grammar has way too much time on their hands."

Don't diss the forum, little nooblet. They put a lot of work into this.

Another Le Quote:
"You know God wasn't involved in the process because _______?"

You know God was involved in the process because ______?

We aren't going to find any answers in this forum OR convince each other, but it sure is fun to try, until it turns out I'm just screwing around... Believe what you want. I believe Jesus was some religious dude, and his 1337 was probably top-notch. Well no, I don't believe that 1337 part, he'd probably be pretty noobish with the keyboard, but he made up for that with trying to save mankind or whatever that sly fox was up to.

None of us have proof. So let's all drink some slush and chill.

I'm new here so I might as well establish my thoughts toward religion right now... Fueled by the lack of proof I simply can't hack religion. Its something made up by people to elimitate or at least supress their fear of dying and to throw people in line. Sure I have a religious friend and we get along fine, but the problem is is that most people here see religion as the only right thing, anything else is wrong. Sure I believe Jesus existed. Of course he's famous for other reasons. I see him as the best selling author of all time. I think that he wrote the bible and the stories contained within are of his mind. Sure I can't prove it but it floats my boat.

I seriously can't sum up my thoughts towards religion any better than Maynard did from Tool, ******* geneous he is. Read the lyrics from Opiate, they sum it up well.

Back to the topic... wtf tongues? Seriously this has to be the worst of the jibberish. I don't know what it is either but I believe its making up words and claiming that they're connected with "the holy spirit". How far off am I?

Here's a fun game for you... go find Cheese's 1337 speech paragraph. Sift through it and contained within it somewhere is my real name... find it and you win 3 days of me not posting... seems like a fair award doesn't it?

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The Stank pwns you!

[This message has been edited by CapnStank (edited December 16, 2004).]

as for tounges, i can see that as an outsider you could easily assume that it is just made up gibberish, with some fairy tale behind it , actually the bible warns people not to use tounges in the wrong context so not to perpertuate that preconception with outsiders.. However tounges is a gift of Holy Spirit (and there are many other gifts, such as word of knowledge and others (an example, God tells you something, often about another person, that nobody might even know, his reasons may be various, whether to cause so opening for healing, a recent example was God told our pastor somebody he was praying for had raped somebody - so he asked the guy, and the guy broke down crying, as nobody ever had found out, and his own sin had locked him up in regret and guilt for all his life, and that word of knowledge allowed him to be set free as he embraced Jesus as his saviour and got washed clean of his sins, and was able to also start set things right.)
but anyway the gift of tounges is a 'spiritual language', and i could go into many details.. Normally used for individuals talking directly to God (but also talking with their minds as well, not just empty sounds), i personally speak in tounges, and i can verify its not gibberish through my own experiences, for there is also a gift that goes with tounges, and that is interpretation of tounges, being able to interpret what was said in tounges, also i have heard other peoples tounges, and they turned out to be a language i knew (such as japanese and chinese) though i knew very much that the speaker did not know those languages at all. And also other than the more spiritual situations, i know people who God told them "to speak loud in tounges in public" in a situation, which seemed really strange, but they did, then later the person next to them said that they were describing the gospel in their own language, and actually own local dialect.
But really tounges isn't foundational to christianity, its just one of many gifts, its not the focus of the truth of the gospel, Jesus and what he did is, everything else is periperal, tounges is like a pair of socks, its not hte person, you don't really care about somebodies socks when talking to them, its just a peice of clothing used for a purpose, and tounges is a gift used for a purpose as well - one i am thankful for having. I'd rather to focus you on Jesus himself and the salvation that can only come through him.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

I'm not saying all tongue-speakers are liar-liars-with-pants-on-fire but the ones who believe they're the real deal need to ease off the mind-altering substances.

kcarc sekoms epop eht

What is difficult, and worth while, is to try and understand a belief, or a view point, understand why people hold it, what it means to the people who hold it and then form your judgements on it.

It is certainly true that many people use religion as a security blanket to cover their fear of death or whatever else bothers them. In the christian religion these people believe in what I like to call Jesus Christ Fire insurance.. what they are really looking for is an insurance policy against their fears. This, however, is not mainstream christianity, or at least it shouldn't be.
In my personal experience believing in God and religion actually makes there much more to fear than not believing in them. Which is why this criticism is very hollow to me. In fact, I would tend to view it quite the other way.. just like many people are christian because they fear death, so also many people are atheists because they fear responsability for their actions to a just God. If there is a God there is a great deal to fear.. if there isn't a God.. then there really is nothing to fear.

before when I made fun of your calling Jesus "some religious dude" and your leet speak, I was covering a serious point with sarcasm and yes mockery
I don't mean this to be insulting because its not a comment on your intelligence, simply on your expereince. Its pretty obvious listening to you guys talk that you have not put alot of serious thought and very very little reading and research into the topic of religion (and in that I include not just my religion but also your own views on religious topics). You come in here to mock other people's views when you have not even begun to scratch the surface of understanding the topic at hand. That is why I don't see much point in discussing the topic with you.

and again I don't mean that as an attack on you.. you may be very inteligent, I really don't know, but being intelligent doesn't mean much if you don't put it to work trying to understand and learn about a topic.

If you want to have something worth saying, and worth listening too on the topic of religion (including your own beliefs in that) you need to read and think about the topic alot more. There is so much that you havn't even begun to consider, I only know this because I was once where you are. I've been studying this topic seriously for 10 years, beginning with my years in college and then even more in the years since.. and I still have read and considered not even half, probably not even a third, of the things that I would like to.. and the further I go, the more aspects I find that I would like to study.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't talk about the topic, or you can't, or anything like that, what I'm saying is that if you want to talk about the topic you should come at it from the realization that there is alot you don't know, alot about other people's views (and your own) that you don't understand.. don't come at it from the attitude that you understand everyone elses view better than they do and you can see how stupid everyone else is while they are blind to it.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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graham

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I'm going with simon. ignore the noob.

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Soterion Studios

Lmfao ArchAngel...
1) Calling me a noob just because I called you one first and it hurt is no need to try hurling it back for the same effect - I'm immune.
2) Try using a different insult - perhaps by creating entirely new words by speaking in tongues!
3) Ignore me? Lol... you replied to one of my posts like five minutes ago, and pretty much every other one I make.

Well put simon, but there's two parts to this. 1) Researching the topic the fuel the arguement. or 2) Doing it without the research to enjoy it.

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The Stank pwns you!

stirring up trouble in a very cliqish forum, i commend u.

sounds like fun.

u must be bored.
i only ask that u confine your trouble-stirring to less significant forums. i.e. dont mess up a perfectly good conversation. some guy did that a couple weeeks ago by disguising a pretty gross link as a christian website.

u dont annoy me, as long as u dont get in the way of important things.

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

So keep the trash talk to a minimum.

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

I have to go eat supper now, what's your opinion on that situation?
Do you think question marks are as cool as exclamation marks?!

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

lol

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried