personwithideas Member Posts: 32 From: First home: Heaven!! Registered: 08-26-2004 |
Can you be a christian and still play 'normal' games like gta? ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
well.. you physically could... lol. and I know chrisitans who do. it's not that your really commiting those crimes. but, it's not my call, for one. ------------------ |
HeardTheWord Member Posts: 224 From: Des Moines, IA Registered: 08-16-2004 |
Why does everyone compare normal games to GTA. Why not something like zelda. Isn't that normal? I am helping with a mod for Half-Life so I think as long as your heart is in the right place then you shouldn't worry. If it gets out of hand then you need to stop. |
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: I wish this distinction would disapear. I'm tired of hearing 'normal/secular' games and 'christian' games. They are all games, aren't they? Pie-in-the-sky thinking on my part however. Anyways, to the question; I think people need to make this choice up for themselves, grab a Bible and check out 1 Corinthians 8. |
|
personwithideas Member Posts: 32 From: First home: Heaven!! Registered: 08-26-2004 |
I've read it, but I'm not quite sure. I think it means follow your feelings as long as it doesn't cause others to lose their faith in christ in things not written about in the bible. Is that right? ------------------ |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
i'd say, "don't play a game Jesus wouldnt play" but youd all hit me over the head, and Id be THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. I to hate it when people associate "secular" games with GTA and Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver. I mean, come on. People can be so narrow. Some game are just not good. If it bothers your conscience to walk around Liberty City and shoot poor old ladies, then don't play the game. If it doesnt at all ,perhaps there is something wrong. I may have violated my favorite quote by now... ------------------ |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
quote: maybe the question should be rephrased, take a game and ask this question. Does it align with these scriptures?
quote: is the game and its content lovely,pure,admirable,praiseworth, edifying etc. or could it be kind of nuetral - just a time waster (time a precious gift by our father), or could it be even the OPPOSITES of these things we are meant to focus on? quote: is the game content mostly 'earthly' fleshly things or not? quote: is playing the game, or those kind of games really just imitating those in the world, just carrying on the same? and so often we have an unsatiable lust for the sensory bombardment of worldly entertainment. quote: quote: have NOTHING to do with evil things, rather than just making rational excuses like "its just a game, its just fantasy, its innocent fun, its not real" quote: in these evil days, should we not harken pauls warnings to live wise?
quote: all this isn't all to bash you over the head, or give you guilt trips, but the word of God is alive and can wake us up, all each of us can do is take these scriptures and say "Lord search my heart for all unrighteousness, cleanse me, and i'll choose to do whatever you want me to do in regards to these things, i surrender" and to end contrasting the fleshy life , with the life and fruit of the spirit quote: love karl ------------------ |
|
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
dude, where's my post? or least responses, thoughts, and replies from those quoted.. (paul and jesus are exempt from having to reply on the forum :P) ------------------ |
|
Nomad Member Posts: 63 From: Registered: 06-29-2004 |
Here's a good, visual thought to consider: For pretty much anything you find yourself questioning (in this case, game content), imagine what Jesus would say if He returned at that moment and walked in on you. He mentions that His coming will resemble that of a thief in the night, and that if the owner of a house knew a thief would be coming at a particular time, he would be extra cautious. There's also a passage in Revelation about how night watchmen who fell asleep were in danger of having their clothes taken away; don't get caught with your clothes off! |
en972 Member Posts: 562 From: NOT TELLING! Registered: 08-27-2004 |
Its just a game, if it bothers you to play it, don't play it. ------------------ |
Rooth Junior Member Posts: 5 From: Finland Registered: 09-14-2004 |
Can you be a christian and eat hamburgers? Now the same applies here... if you ONLY eat hamburgers you wonīt get out trough your door after a while! So eating too much is bad, it may or will influence you TOO much! If you sometimes eat a hamburger it can be a great pleaseure, but remember to eat some healthy food also. Some people canīt buy from "MacDonalds" because they are against itīs multinational impact.... well then donīt eat and support it! Thatīs how I think! |
|
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
could the same philosophy be applied to porn? just an occassional hamburger, just a little soft porn once in a while? evil is not something to be consumed in moderation, it is something to be fled from. ------------------ |
|
nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
What is the real difference between "fantasy" and "reality" as it relates to entertainment (inclusive of games, movies, books, etc)? How does this difference compare to thinking something evil and doing something evil? Is the better rationalization of these points in conflict with the teachings of Christ and what the Bible tells us is right? God has instructed us in the Bible what is right and what is wrong to do, oftentimes quite specifically but occasionally only in principle. The Ten Commandments and other laws of God - both Old Testament and New Testament - direct us in our natural physical behaviour as well as our spiritual behaviour. quote:This proves the intent of the old covenant was to extend beyond physical boundaries to the spiritual level. It is important to realize that SIN, when it is unforgiven and/or has not been atoned for, is not something that is temporal - it is eternal. If it were temporal, the sacrifices of the old covenant would only have had to occur once for each person, and Christ Jesus would not have had to make an eternal sacrifice for the atonement of our eternal sin. 1 Corinthians 8 is a very practical explanation of how to handle the co-called "grey" areas of life. It is not giving license to us to do what we think is right by our "godly conscience" - something we never fully have nor understand until we are in the presence of God. Rather, this scripture is an explanation that as we live and grow in the love of God, and permeate the lives of others with His love, we are to put great care in our actions and thoughts because there are so many unbelievers and new believers who are struggling with understanding the love of God and dealing with the experiences of sin in their life. One has to realize that the primary concept of Christianity is having the love of God for others - Christianity at its core is a selfless practice of being for the eternal benefit of others. With this in mind, the teachings of Christ and the commands of God make perfect logical sense in our human understanding. I personally do not believe Jesus would spend any time "entertaining" others, in the sense we know of today. Jesus had a very specific purpose for being on this earth, and I really find it hard to accept - let alone substantiate - that he would take a break from his ministry to indulge in anything the world had to offer him, for himself alone. The only exception to this would be in a case where the greater will of God would be accomplished - for example, the marriage feast where he turned water into wine (refer to John 2). Pardon my sarcasm here, but I can't see Jesus stopping on the sabbath during a long journey and after dinner pulling out his GBA to spend some "me time". On the other hand, I could definitely see Jesus attending a LAN party for the purpose of sharing the truth of God with everyone he could, and giving no thought as to whether he actually got a chance to play Doom3 Deathmatch. I think the best summary of what it means to be a Christian is found in 1 John 2:15-17: quote:This passage might be hard for some people to accept - especially when the issue is "just a video game". Still, the truth is plain and simple; though, it is very hard to be obedient to. On a final note, something that is pleasurable is not necessarily acceptable - even if it is enjoyed on an occasional basis - nor is it necessarily right to do. You can pick any topic to use as an example, and it is still a truth. As a Christian, we are not to seek the pleasures of this world, but rather seek the joys of Heaven. Yes, God gave us many things to enjoy here on this earth, but He also gave us responsibility along side of that. If you aren't sure what happens when you lose responsibility for the sake of pleasure, refer to Genesis 2. God bless, |
Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
I am a christian teen, I have accepted Christ. I'm not totally pure. I face temptations, and give in to some, resist others. I look at porn from time to time. I know its wrong, but its a temptation. Its doesn't help to condemn people for doing it either. I play games, Zelda is just as evil as GTA. You have a sword and you kill things and people, just like GTA. I think it would be wrong to tell someone, no you can't play these. I Do think that moderation and considerationg of the evils needs to be considered. The game Manhunt disgusts me. It is horrible. You can't classify all game into one group. Also, if anyone has any help on porn issues it would be appreciated, but not just saying don't do it. |
|
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
in games you aren't actually killing people, nor hating (if you are, put down that game). I think it depends on the person; it's not like porn where the bible says not to lust. yeah, the "don't do it" works well until you get to the point of temptation. ------------------ |
|
nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
The attitude of Christ toward sin was not a condmenation of the person, but a condemnation of the sin being committed. Somehow the attitude of Christianity, as perceived not only outside the church but also within a good number of those inside the church, has been that any statement against something "wrong" is an attitude of piety and/or judgment on or against the individual. Truly, Christ wants us to have an attitude of love toward each other, especially those not in the family of God. How is it love toward another person when you know what is good in the sight of God and don't do it? How is it love for another person whom you know has struggles with sin, and you do nothing to help them - whether prayer or face-to-face confrontation - to stop sinning? To you who know what is sin by your own admission and experience it is plain to see; to those who persist in sin, they are blind to it and cannot see - or do not want to see - their wrong. That is how sin works in every one of us. When it all comes down to sin, we are all alike. We all sin and we all struggle with the same things. We may struggle at different times and to different degrees, but sin is still sin and it does not matter if it is a small amount or a grossly huge amount. I would honestly rather be hated by the masses for speaking the truth of God's word than to say or do nothing to let people know that truth. As a Christian it is my responsibility to care more for the eternity of others than myself - and it is a responsibility born out of love for the person not a hatred for the sin. Sin is not in being tempted, it is giving into the temptation. There is nothing you can do to prevent temptation. As the old saying goes, even idle hands are the devil's workshop. quote:When it comes to the point of temptation, what you should say to yourself is exactly that, "Don't do it!" God cannot keep you from sinning; God did everything necessary to take care of the effect of sin, but you are the only one who can make the decision to either give into temptation or not sin. There are more issues with games that relate to the porn-lust connection. The Bible tells us to not sin when we are angry; speaking from experience and knowing everyone can relate, it is very hard to be angry and not think evil toward someone, or even yourself. When you play CounterStrike or Battlefield - or any other type of game (yeah, people get upset playing Solitaire too) - things happen in the game that cause you to get upset. "Why are you shooting your own team!?!" "Don't you know how to play!?!" The list goes on. I've heard these comments (in a more unfiltered manner) and I've also uttered the same words. Many times the reaction goes unnoticed to one's self. God bless, |
|
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: if that is the case, I'm seriously screwed. through God only can I resist sin. How can I do it myself? it's my fricken nature. through God all things are possible.
quote: the games are not responsble for their actions, only they are. ------------------ |
|
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
quote: i think you missed his point. We know that by our human nature we are bound to sin again and again, and only By Christ can we be free and strengthened to obey and resist tempation, but this is about submiting our WILL to God's WILL. Irregardless of God's help of us, if we CHOOSE to rebel and sin, choose not to flee tempation, but to entertain it, then God cannot help, beecause we have moved outside of his Will, and ignored doing things the way he has called, we have discarded his safegaurds, and ventured into the enemies teroritory without our armour. But i must interate, its only through Christ that we can be more than overcommers, without Christ, all our best attempts at rightouesness will end up nothing more than filty rags. but these are two seperate issues
quote: I fully agree, we are responsibile for our own actions, but there are ingredients in things as well. we are responsible for our action sins and also our thought sins, we are reponsible for our acted our lusts and our thought lusts, whether in the sexual realm, or our lust of violence, or lust for things (materialism). We are responsible for everywhere also where we place and make idols in our lives. ------------------ [This message has been edited by klumsy (edited September 26, 2004).] |
|
nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
I wasn't implying that you can combat sin by your self or within your own power. Scripture clearly says the opposite - that God is the source of our strength and it is only through God's strength that we can fight sin and temptation and grow in the knowledge and wisdom of Him. To satisfy any doubt, I believe the Bible. Now, our "fricken nature" is exactly what we are to overcome. And this is my point, that we have all we need in God to fight sin and succeed; and scripture is our "Guide to Christian Living". If this is not enough, is God truly God, or just a god? Is scripture just old stories written down by old men, or is it the inspired words of God? The Christian life is a fight between our old self and our new self, and it is something we have to deal with daily in order to grow in Christ. Otherwise we stumble and fall and give victory to the old self and to sin. God can take an addiction away instantaneously, but it isn't a requirement of becoming a Christian. If it were that simple, there wouldn't be temptation among Christians. I am not denying the existence or power of temptation - I am not perfect any more than you. But it does come down to a decision: sin doesn't just happen, it is chosen. Eve didn't walk into the forbidden fruit and happen to take a bite out of it. Adam didn't happen to trip over a squirrel and suddenly find he had unwillingly taken a bite out of the same forbidden fruit. They both made a choice - a willing choice and one that they considered to do or not do. It is the same for us. Paul wrote about this all through Romans. As for responsibility: yes, everyone is responsible for their own actions. And we, as Christians, are even more responsible for our actions. We are the ones who know what is right and what we should do - it is written for us in scripture. And we will be judged based on this and what we did with the knowledge of God. God bless, |
|
Posts: From: Registered: |
1 To waste your time on long games and you do not get anything out where you can be doing something more constructive them you should not play. 2 But if you need it to blow some steam out and the game helps then maybe. 3 If the game does not impose bad and is neutral like Tetris then good, but if it encourages and rewards bad immoral behavior then you should not play. Just my guess. But the thing you have to ask yourself is that would Christ play GTA3? |
|
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
eh... okay, once again, I'm going to pick on the WWJD logic. A) we aren't to be exactly like Christ. Jesus didn't have wife, but Paul said that so of us would need to get married. B) when using that argument, it's easy to make Jesus anything you want. your using common sense instead of actual biblical knowledge manytimes. the better arguement is probably it is not beneficial to play GTA3. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited October 26, 2004).] |
|
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
klumsy archangel, what about a response to nfictious's exposition? ------------------ |
|
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
um... I misunderstood his post... you didn't think I was angry, did you? ------------------ |
|
Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
Hey everyone, thanks for the topic, and thank you archangel for the sites and advice. I believe that it is through our faith in God the he will keep us from temptation that can set us free. I think instead of slamming bibles verses and quotes at people, we need to be coming up with personal experiances and advice on what works for different people. If someone everytime is tempted, and thinks, Oh I just shouldn't do it, its never helped me in the past. Thank you again everyone God Bless, Max ------------------ |
|
nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
Hey Max, Hope you have learned from this topic and that it will constantly be in your mind. Glad you were able to get something out of it  It is interesting that you mentioned the issue of personal experience as opposed to Bible verses in regard to helping one another, whether the issue is sin or just general life. Consider that the Bible is all about personal experiences; it is much more than commandments and laws. When you look at scripture in that context, then yeah, it isn't much help. Much of the direct conversation in the New Testament revolved entirely around Old Testament scripture (not just the law) as well as personal experiences. I'm not picking on you for saying that, just clarifying a point for your benefit - and perhaps for the benefit of others here. I certainly am not perfect and hope my attitude in my conversations here convey that; I struggle with issues like everyone else here, and that is why I say the things I do - with certainty and faith, because it is also my personal experience. God bless, |
|
Posts: From: Registered: |
Christ was not married |
|
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
I'm sorry, that was a typo. Jesus did not have a wife. let me correct that. haha. I was looking at your post and wondering, what the heck? didn't.. I just.. say that? my point on the bible-verse vs. personal experience is this: ------------------ |
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
An interesting topic to be sure, and one I've gotten into 'discussions' on before. first off, killing isn't always evil. Killing is always regretable (at least in some sense), unfortunate, but not always evil. Many christians mistake regretable with evil. When Jesus beat a bunch of people with a whip, it was regretable that circumstance and their evil forced him to have to do that, and I'm sure he would rather have not had to do it, but it wasn't evil. When Cain killed Abel, that was evil, when David killed Goliath it was the right thing to do. Secondly, portraying evil is not always evil. There are not many books in the world more violent, more full of sex, rape, murder, paganism, and devil worship, than the bible. If a realistic movie were made protraying exactly the things related in the bible, most christians would probably not be able to watch it. Just a tiny example of that is the passion of the christ. Games like GTA aren't really a question for me because they don't have any redeeming qualities. Even if you are playing a game, deriving pleasure from emulating acts of evil is never good for you. Gunning down a bunch of helpless old women in real life will probably get you an express ticket to hell (of course God is more merciful than I am), gunning down a bunch of helpless old women in GTA won't get you an express ticket to hell, but, in my opinion, it will leave a mark on your mind and on your soul. You can't emulate evil for enjoyment without it affecting you. I'd have to say probably not, but its still something for caution and something interesting to think about ------------------ |
|
nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
Welcome to the boards simon You have some interesting points but there are some things that concerned me in your post, so I'll get right to it
quote: Killing is one of those things on the list of 10 things not to do, otherwise known as the Ten Commandments.
quote: There is a fine line between identifying evil behavior and imitating it. As Christians, we are to be imitators of Christ, and not of the world. For the most part, I agree with your comments - and I think you and I are alike in these things. I would urge you to be careful and thoughtful with the words you choose to use - not for your sake but for the sake of those who read them.
quote: I would augment one of your statements: "You can't emulate evil without it affecting you." God bless, |
|
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
Thanks for the welcome Matt, and the response On killing. First off, the commandment "thou shalt not kill" again is a common christian misconception/mistranslation. Its easily provable that in Hebrew the commandment is "thou shalt not commit murder". This is what the hebrews have always taught, and its also what the standard orthodox teaching has always been. although I believe in scriptural authority and inerrancy, there are a few, minor, mistranslations common in english versions of the bible, this is one.. another is when the angels proclaimed the birth of Christ, they didn't say "peace on earth good will to men" the greek text indicates they actually said "peace on earth to men of goodwill". ( I tend to ramble sometimes, sorry) Anyway, murder is when a person kills without just reason or cause. There are clear statements in the bible that give specific instances in which it is not only justifiable to kill, but in fact mandated to kill. I'm not speaking about the killing done by the hebrews at God's command either (like david and goliath). Further, there are implied instances from scripture as well. Now, having said all that, I must also say that killing, even when justified is never without consequence. Even if killing someone is the right thing to do, it is still regretable, and still has negative effects. The best example of this I can think of is that God forbade David from building the temple specificly because he had too much blood on his hands. David was a man after God's own heart, and even the people he killed were the enemies of God and Israel, it still marked him negatively, and he could not build the temple which was a great desire for him. Its actually an curious paradox of the faith that we are called to be warrior, God is called a warrior, and that is viewed as glorious in scripture, yet we don't and shouldn't revel in killing. As to Jesus beating people with a whip. I was refering to the cleansing of the temple. One of the accounts in the gospels states that he took a cord (rope) before hand and tied it into knots, which is similar to the construction of scourges (minus the bits of broken glass and such of course) and he used it to drive the money changes and merchants out of the temple. In my opinion, that means he whipped them.
------------------ |
Chickadoo Member Posts: 75 From: marzukba, europa, milky way Registered: 10-13-2004 |
quote: Does this mean that MacDonalds is evil? should I stop eating there? i...i...i...*barf* feel much better.
quote: the effect that games have on the human(child especially) Psyche are astounding. for example, take Columbine. I've been a shooter since I was age 9 (in real life, BTW) and one thing that you take for granted is if the recoil knocked your aim off, you move the gun back to the original position and continue firing. if you are shooting skeet or trap, you don't wait for the pigeon to pass in front of your gun to pull the trigger, depending on where you are standing in relation to the direction of the bird, you point the gun just in front of, on, or just behind the bird, firing when you get to the right spot, with a carefull followthrough. at columbine, however, the perpetrators aimed their gun at one spot, and when someone walked in front of that spot, they fired. where did that strategy come from? I wonder (not!). there are vid. games out there that are just kids fighting other kids just for the fun of it. then either cursing or laughing at each other about it. do they go on, leaving their Psyche unnafected? seeing the callousness of it all, I sincerely doubt it! what the heck are zelda or GTA anyways? ------------------ I'm Reformed, but I just don't know it yet. [This message has been edited by chickadoo (edited December 03, 2004).] |
