The gospel is most clearly said by the Lord Jesus himself that to be saved (forgiven, reconciled, justified) is by believing (trusting) in Him alone.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.“ - John 3:16

The word used everlasting (Aionios) means without end, never to cease. This life that the Lord spoke of is not a temporary thing, but forever. Once you or I believe (Pisteuo – put confidence in, trust) we are saved forever.

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” - Romans 10:9

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:13

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” - John 6:37

The below verse from 1 Corinthians 3:15 is talking about when believers will stand before the Lord. All of our works will be tried by fire to see if they were good or bad. The good will remain, as gold or silver would remain in a fire, but the bad will be burnt up, as wood and paper would be. But the important thing to see is the latter part of the verse, “but he himself shall be saved”.

“If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” - 1 Corinthian 3:15

We will still be saved because of Jesus and what He did for us. We cannot unsave ourselves. For the blood of Christ cleaseth us from all sin.

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.” - Romans 5:9-10

Now this does not mean that we go out and live a sinful lifestyle, knowing that we're saved and always will be. A sign that one is truly saved is that they don't want to live a sinful life, but we must remember that we are not justified by our works (actions) only by Christ.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” - Ephesians 2:8

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” - Titus 3:5

“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, ” - 2 Timothy 1:9

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” - Romans 3:20

“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” - Romans 3:24

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” - Romans 3:28

“For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.” - Romans 4:2

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” - Romans 5:1

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” - Romans 5:9

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” - Galations 2:16

There are so many more verses to add but I don't know them all. Just let God's word tell you the truth and not let the devil destroy in your mind or heart what the Lord has told us and done for us. Jesus died to reconcile us to God, to justify us, is continually sanctifying us and will bring us home to heaven at His appointed time.

God Bless.

John

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Come visit me @ my homepage - http://www.mclernon.com/

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If the dream is big enough the facts don't count.-Dexter Yager

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I read a post the other day which is disturbing. It was said that there are some on this bulletin board believe that the salvation of the Lord Jesus is not permanent and we can lose it.

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I'm not sure I want to respond in this thread. Ah well, here goes: I am one who believes salvation can be lost.

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The gospel is most clearly said by the Lord Jesus himself that to be saved (forgiven, reconciled, justified) is by believing (trusting) in Him alone.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.“ - John 3:16

The word used everlasting (Aionios) means without end, never to cease. This life that the Lord spoke of is not a temporary thing, but forever. Once you or I believe (Pisteuo – put confidence in, trust) we are saved forever.

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But what kind of "believing" does this? A simple one-time assenting, or an ongoing belief? In John 3:16, the tense of the Greek word translated "believeth" is in the continuous, ongoing sense.

I think salvation is like a marriage: once you're married you're still married even if you wake up some mornings and don't feel romantic, don't talk to your spouse, etc. You don't loose your marriage by forgetting to take out the garbage. But it is possible to end a marriage. God has "saved" us in the same fashion, and will remain faithful. We, however, still have the ability to become unfaithful and leave the relationship.

I guess the biggest problem I have with the idea of eternal security is all the scripture verses that warn us about falling away, not enduring, etc.

Brian

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Brian

Difficult topic, but this is the way I see it. I think it is 'theoreticaly' possible to lose your salvation, but because of Gods great love for us it becomes 'impossible' for us to lose it. Much like we can not save ourselves in the first place, only Jesus can.

I believe it is possible to move away from God and lose some of his blessing, grace and protection in 'this' life, but this is NOT loosing your salvation. Like the original poster, as a young Christian I panicked several times that I had lost my salvation - it is an awful experience. But through the years I am learning "how great is the love of God". "We can do nothing by ourselves, it is ALL to the glory of GOD". It is GOD who keeps us, it is GOD who ensures our continued salvation that he may show his great and eternal love to all the heavenly bodies. Its not about us, its about HIM.

And just for speculation, I suppose the question 'might' be, are we really saved to start with? For example, I was saved in my early twenties with a 'dramatic' conversion. I have never been the same since. However, my children are now 'growing' into their Christian faith and my elder daughter calls herself a Christian. Even so, she still has much to learn and will need to 'reconfirm' her faith as she grows and matures untill she finaly truly believes and truly belongs to Jesus.

I am no theologian and am walking the path (poorly at times) as we all are. This is just my view.

Rhy Out

PS - Just found this forum, cool and HI everyone. Hmm, can't get smilies to work?

[This message has been edited by Rhyolite (edited August 04, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Rhyolite (edited August 04, 2004).]

There are different levels of reward in Heaven, not some utopian society of equality. We will be unable to be jealous of those greater than ourselves or to be anything but totally happy I think, but those who spend their life working for God, in God, will presumably have greater rewards than one who is saved then falls away? Always a shady area - the Bible seems clear although what's the meaning of Jesus saying "I tell you this, many who cry 'master, master' will not enter the kingdom of Heaven" or similar (no bible here)?

and especially Hebrews 6:4-6:

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It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

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We have some [u]very[/u] strong warnings all over the NT about turning away. Why would they be there, if it were impossible to do so?

Almost every passage that has a warning, though, also says that God will not give us more than we can handle. 1 Cor 10:13 says: "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it."

The Hebrews passage also says this: (6:9-10) "Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case -- things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them."

John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand."

Reference: http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2647

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The gospel is most clearly said by the Lord Jesus himself that to be saved (forgiven, reconciled, justified) is by believing (trusting) in Him alone.

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I agree.

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The word used everlasting (Aionios) means without end, never to cease. This life that the Lord spoke of is not a temporary thing, but forever. Once you or I believe (Pisteuo – put confidence in, trust) we are saved forever.

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It says "but have everlasting life." Obviously we do not live eternally on this earth - this is obviously referrring to heaven.

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Difficult topic, but this is the way I see it. I think it is 'theoreticaly' possible to lose your salvation, but because of Gods great love for us it becomes 'impossible' for us to lose it. Much like we can not save ourselves in the first place, only Jesus can.

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Yes, if we keep in the faith, we cannot lose it. But if we purposely decide to become a satanist or atheist or Baal worshiper, and purposely reject Jesus (to the point where we believe that Jesus does NOT save), do we keep the faith?

There is only one way to lose faith once we have gained it: As a willful, forceful rejection of the Biblical teachings on our part. Losing salvation is very difficult, as even a doubting, weak faith is nevertheless a saving faith.

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as a young Christian I panicked several times that I had lost my salvation - it is an awful experience.

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But you didn't . I myself have worried that I might turn atheist sometimes, but I have managed to pull through. A weak faith is a saving faith, BTW. Difficult times alone don't make you lose your faith, God has promised that.

BTW, all passages are taken from the NIV.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited August 05, 2004).]

I have seen so many Christians uterly discouraged and doubting their salvation (and believing the lies of the enemy) when really they are just experienceing the normal growing pains of a new Christian. This is not to say they do not need some rebuking about sin in their lives or spend more time reading scripture and understanding the love of God.

Rhy Out

i think alot of it is christians in the self condemnation, self hate, guilt , shame cycle, seasoned with a bit of legalism.
many are in this cycle, and to them doubting their salvation is a huge thing, i know i've been there before. But once you really grip God's huge love for yourself and others, and his acceptance of you - as you were before oyu were saved, then you can choose to accept yourself, not because you are 'good enough' to God, but Because God loves you and accept you, and from there you can live a life of victory in the precious grace of God..
not a watered down grace of 'permitting anything, or God will just always let me off the hook'
but a grace of being very thankful for the precious sacrifice of Christ for your sins, which you are painfully aware of, but rather than brooding in self hate, entering into the life of Grace for which you were saved for.
for so many of us, with broken lives and heart issues, interlectual understanding of 'being able to lose salvation or not' are really not touching the heart of the issue and just leave people confused..
GOd Knows, God understands, God Cares, with a passion, and He forgives - he forgave even me, he would have even forgiven the likes of Hilter, He can forgive anybody who will accept his forgiveness. remember the devil is the accuser of the bretheren, he will use our own sin/conscience etc to accuse us to cause US to seperate ourselves from God, to move out from living in His grace, through his lies.. we haveto remember that nothing can seperate us from the love of God. We can't tolerate sin in our lives, but we have to realise that we are sinners, and God understands our condition, and the only way to be overcommers is to humbly come back to God daily getting His help by His Grace and His Spirit. the cycle of sin/guilt/self condemnation/distancing ourselves from God/doubting our salvation is such a sad reality for so many people, But Jesus came to set the captives free.

....
however on the other hand, i'm sure that you can REJECT (rather than lose) your salvation, but refusing the proddings of the Holy Spirit, to the point that your heart is so hard that you will not turn back to God,
As long as we still have free will, we have the ability to REJECT the gift of salvation, of eternal life, and delibrate sin, rebellion against God etc is all a step in that direction..

what _I_ think is the people who are normally concerned with 'losing their salvation' aren't likely to, they are still persueing the things of God, and caring about their relationship with God, they just need a full dose of grace..
while those who have become proud and who stand above, judging everybody else, sinning rampantly but not acknowleding their sins but rather justifying them, resisting the proddings on the spirit, holding rebelious attitudes towards God, not submitting to God - wanting to be on the throne of their lives themselves and using God as a give-me/bless-me servant of theirs, living up a life of religion, but not knowing Christ, are the ones that need to be concerned that Jesus will say to some "hey despite even doing cool miracles in my name, get out of here, i never KNEW you".. for God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble..
and the former group are ussually more aware of their sins, and are willing to humble themselves..

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

[This message has been edited by klumsy (edited August 05, 2004).]

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what _I_ think is the people who are normally concerned with 'losing their salvation' aren't likely to, they are still persueing the things of God, and caring about their relationship with God, they just need a full dose of grace..

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Oh, well in that case, they can take comfort: You don't "lose" your salvation simply by having some doubts. Some doubt can be normal, and God's Word offers comfort. Where man is weak, God is strong: A doubter is probably a stronger Christian than they think: They are taking God's word seriously, which is what God wants.

Even Paul had some doubts, but he was given comfort (2 Cor 12:9-10): "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christs' sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

but for those who take the grace of God for granted, there are plentiful warnings such as hebrews 10:26-29

the sad thing is often christians let forget that there is no condemnation for this in Christ and just as the devil used scriptures out of context in his temptation of Jesus, he also uses scriptures out of context to condemn us, and try to get us to pull away from God for whatever reason.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of prophecy, God shall take away his part from Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book (Revelation 22:18-19 NKJV).

The Book of Life only has the names of people that are to enter Heaven, and if their names can be taken out, then that means salvation can be lost. In other words don't do something stupid like: change the meaning or content of the Bible, reject the gift of salvation, or convert to a different religion (which probably would mean that this person wasn't saved to begin with).

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I Eat Small Goats!

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If the dream is big enough the facts don't count.-Dexter Yager

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I Eat Small GOATS!

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I Eat Small GOATS!

[This message has been edited by Exekiel (edited August 15, 2004).]

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If the dream is big enough the facts don't count.-Dexter Yager