CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
I have found that simply talking to non-christians about the various philisophical underpinnings of Christianity (freewill vs determinism, creation vs evolution, etc) to be quite ineffective without encouraging the other person to read the Bible. What I keep forgetting that it's God's word that turns them to the truth, not our own human reasoning. Let us not fall into the trap of trying to convince people through logic and reasoning alone: If the other person isn't reading the Bible, it's quite useless. This also affects how we make games: A game that does not point somebody to the Bible is just entertainment. We should encourage people to think - is that really what the Bible says? Then they will open their Bibles and find out. ------------------ Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here |
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Nomad Member Posts: 63 From: Registered: 06-29-2004 |
A good point well said. Indeed, the wisdom of the cross can appear to be foolishness to the "wisdom" of man. The best witness we can offer is living as the Spirit guides, trusting that God will do the rest. As far as games and other "remote witnessing" go, while it would be nice to see material that successfully points people to God and the Bible, it seems a good use for Christian games to be a healthier alternative to the mainstream secular entertainment. |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
While it's quite entertaining discussing such topics as you mentioned, I agree you can argue for hours without really getting anyplace. Gives you a chance to bring in personal testimony which is more significant, but bringing it to the bible is excellent advice. As long as you know where to look for stuff regarding all the things you discuss... |
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Skynes Member Posts: 202 From: Belfast, N Ireland Registered: 01-18-2004 |
So how can you, using a game you've made, get someone to read the Bible without blatantly saying READ THE BIBLE |
Matthias Member Posts: 23 From: Spencer, Iowa, USA Registered: 07-28-2004 |
Perhaps just by introducing issues into your storyline (if one exists) that would lead in that direction. Show main or support characters turning to God's Word for answers and include links or contact info for ppl who can help them get a copy if needed. Oh ya, Hi I'm new... |
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felisandria Junior Member Posts: 3 From: Colorado Springs, CO Registered: 07-26-2004 |
I've found that The Case for Faith and The Case for Christ by Strobel are excellent resources (I keep a half dozen of each on the shelf just in case). That being said... it's not up to us. There is literally nothing we can do to force the Holy Spirit to convict someone. Of course the good flipside of that is that there is nothing we can do to screw up badly enough to prevent someone from being convicted. It's between them and God. Not that we shouldn't try, and try hard, just that we shouldn't be timid in thinking we'll do a poor job, and we shouldn't be disappointed when our best efforts seem fruitless. -fel |
silicon_chippy Member Posts: 208 From: Scotland Registered: 10-26-2002 |
The Indiana Jones films encouraged me to read the Bible, and Indiana didn't seem to be a Christian. Each film had a biblical edge. If we could do the same, there would be a thing............... ------------------ |
Rhyolite Member Posts: 86 From: UK Registered: 08-04-2004 |
Being new to writting games and keen to have a Christian slant to them in some way, this is a real issue for me atm. I think that if your game is overtly Christian it will put most people off. Not neccesarily a bad thing, especially if your main audience are already christians. However, since it is the 'Word of God' which saves, how can we then influece the unsaved without making the game overtly Christian? Considering the media of films/books, there is some mindless entertainment out there (not neccarily bad, just 'entertainment') and there are those films/books with a message that challenges you in some way (but can still be 'entertaining'). When I have seen/read a challenging film/book I will often be interested in who the writer/author was and found some of them to be Christians. Perhaps this could be an approach, more of an 'opening' to witness that we are Christians rather that a 'direct' message in itself?? Of course, the 'message' would have to be at least 'moral' in the first place Rhy Out |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
i think we have to be overt in most cases, but also respectful, there is a way to be "IN YOUR FACE" , and respectful at the same time, it ussually has more to do with teh heart of the speaker than the actual words (whether you are loving and caring for the people, or rather your ideas and thoughts are more important than they are (for our own sake, because its ours, rather than because of the truth of Christ) however, even a perfect presentation of the gospel by Jesus himself will be accepted by some and rejected by others who will be grossly offended by it, as others have said, only the Holy Spirit can work in a peoples heart unto salvation, but we have been given the job , not of saving people, but of being communicators of the gospel, and often accross cross-cultural boundaries, where there has to be skillfull crosscultural communication, using things like eye openers, things to get people over some misconceptions, and to lay some foundational understandings which are needed to build the context of the gospel, and such things can be done effectively with various media (and have been, maybe not computer games yet), but sure they have been. ------------------ |
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personwithideas Member Posts: 32 From: First home: Heaven!! Registered: 08-26-2004 |
Why not use a subliminally Christian game that gradually becomes overt and include a electrionic version of the bible with website links for church locators, conversion focusesed sites etc. That way players are sucked in and discreminatly sucked into a more and more christian driven game and are gradually introduced to the main themes of Christianaty and the proofs for Christ and can then use the included resources to expand their knowlegde of the Word and link up with a local Church. Like putting a frog in water and slowly bringing it to boil so it sits there instead of into boiling water and jumping straight out. Hey, thats sounds like something I should put into my game!! ------------------ |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
hmmm... ------------------ It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln [This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited September 02, 2004).] [This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited September 02, 2004).] |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
here is what i think ------------------ |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
quote: if it is an rpg or quest game then u can make the player go to the Bible for many answers to riddles and problems. Send the Bilbe in the box w/game or have an electronic one bundeled with the software. either way they are reading the Bible. ------------------ |
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cheybea Member Posts: 40 From: Registered: 10-03-2004 |
We need to exercise more love, less judgment. We need to reach out and say to people, “I can’t change you, YOU can’t change you, but I know Someone who can.” And then we need to make sure they understand that “change” doesn’t necessarily mean no more temptations, no more attractions, no more struggles (although it’s entirely possible). It means a change of heart, knowing they are valuable to God, and knowing that there is another way to live. THAT’S the message we need to be getting to people, not that they are evil, disgusting sub-human beings. Because even if we’re not doing it intentionally, that IS the message we seem to be sending. We’re telling people to clean up their act and come to Jesus, which is the opposite of how it’s supposed to work. Christ called us to “come as we are” not as we think He’d like us to be. We need to get ‘em there, and point ‘em to Jesus, and then LET Jesus do the rest! - Chels ------------------ |
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
In terms of speaking to people one on one, the best advice I can give is simply what the bible says, be ready to give an answer for the faith that is in you. In my experience most of the times that I've had opportunities to really witness to people, they have done much of the question asking. It is very true that it is God who saves, and not us, so when you are talking to people don't worry about sugar coating the truth, just tell them the truth and let God do his work. And pray... Ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words. ------------------ |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
It is equally difficult, from an atheist's (like me) point of view, to reason with Christians (and nearly all spiritual people who belong to organized religions) without having them read the books that gave us our perspective (like The Origin of Species). I have read some of the Bible, and I've had my fair share of pointless (but fun) religious debates. I agree that it is impossible to have much of a debate by reasoning with someone who doesn't understand your argument. I won't get into the eternal Science Vs. Religion argument here, unless someone wants to join in. Just remember that both sides have books that they want their opponents to read. Try to read the books on both sides! And if you have, good job - even if they don't change your opinion, at least you're educated. What I'm trying to say is that we're opposites (in so far as our beliefs), but with the same problem. *edit - spacing stuff out so it's not so hard on the eyes* [This message has been edited by CheeseStorm (edited November 28, 2004).] |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
"Science vs Religion" is a strawman. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. That's a common mistake I see all the time.
quote: I agree. Welcome to the boards, BTW Did we get a wave of publicity recently? There seems to be a wave of newcomers right now. And a good way to make somebody read the Bible without saying "read the Bible"? How about confronting the player with a problem that requires some biblical knowledge? Then you don't have to say it outright, but they still get the idea. ------------------ Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited November 28, 2004).] |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Mkay, Unexpained creation involving messed up physics Vs. Unexplained creation involving an old magical dude. I think I'll stick with Science Vs. Religion. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
why does this have to be all so and so Versus so and so. aren't we all just looking for truth? ------------------ |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
We are looking for the truth in different ways. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
so? ------------------ |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: Oh, you're talking about ultimate creation? Didn't realize that. More like "naturalistic theory vs supernatural theory". Either way, you're right - we really can't prove our explanations. ------------------ Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
quote: So... we are looking for the truth in different ways, and it is useful to understand the different ways of finding it, even if you don't agree with them. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
I see that, but why the "versus" ------------------ |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Conflicting opinions. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
it's still no requirement. granted, I see the reason. ------------------ |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
"Science vs Religion" is a logical fallacy intended to frame the debate in favor of a certain religion. It's Religion vs Religion. |
windrider Member Posts: 10 From: Pearl,MS, United States Registered: 12-26-2004 |
Okay. In the main post, it was talking about how hard it is to talk to a non christian. Well I was raised in a Christian family. I am not a christian myself. I do not put other religions down and I believe that as long as we do what is right and help each other the world would be a better place. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Picture heaven as a beautiful meadow. There are many paths to it. It does not matter witch one you take, aslong as you get there without harming anyone or anything. |
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Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
Have you considered Christianity? I mean, I'm not out to "convert" you, but you seem to have a lever head and a good heart. If you need someone to talk with, I'm here and you can talk with me. I'd hate to not see you when I step through the Pearly Gates. ------------------ |
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Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
Archangel, the problem is that we aren't all looking for the truth. I don't intend that to be directed at any member of the discussion here (so don't take it personaly cheese) but in general, my experience leads me to believe that most people are not looking for the truth, they are looking to prove themselves right. Or at best, they are looking for the "truth" that appeals to them, or the "truth" that makes them comfortable. As gump pointed out the idea of "science vs religion" is largely invalid simply because the two things don't (and for the most part shouldn't) exist in the same realm. Its a false comparison.. its kind of like having an argument of html programing vs. platonic philosophy. You could concievably argue with is more important or which is more useful, but you can't really argue which is more correct because they aren't even in the same realm. ------------------ |
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CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Nobody has a clue about the origin of everything, so that's why our beliefs all just end up on faith. I'm not for a god, I'm not against a god, I really have no idea. That might sound like I have no faith, but really it's placed in the idea that we know very little and we shouldn't jump to conclusions. |
Brandon Member Posts: 594 From: Kansas City, Mo, USA Registered: 02-02-2004 |
It sounds more like you just don't have faith in what evidence that you do have. We will never know eveything, but we can know enough to make an intelligent decision on. Yes it does take faith, but it also makes perfect sense. I'm quite impressed that you realize that you know that what we all know is very little.(unties tongue) Most young people think that they know everything! ------------------ |
where you go for the express purpose of being preached at, most people don't like it. That includes me. I don't like things that feel like propaganda. So if you want to introduce truth and scripture, the gospel, etc in your games, I suggest you do it in such a way that the players don't feel like they are being preached at. I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that.