General Christian Discussions

Mel Gibson – theanvil

theAnvil

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From:
Registered: 02-17-2004
Did anyone else catch Mel Gibson's interview on Primetime and/or hear of his film entitled "Passion of the Christ"?? For those of you who haven't, it is "..a vivid depiction of the last 12 hours of Jesus Christ's life.." The film is rated R, I'm guessing because of blood and violence, some of which was played on the interview.

First some of my thoughts on this. From the beginning of the interview on Primetime, I was very skeptical. I've seen Mel in some other movies, and he never struck me as Christian in the least. He talked about his life, and how we was into drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc, and he talked about he was at the top of it all: fame, popularity, money, you name it, but he said it wasn't enough. All the things he posessed did not satisfy, and that was his turning point. He wondered what the meaning of life was or something along those lines, which led him to Christ. He talked about believing that the scriptures are fact and believing in the Holy Ghost, and that nothing happens by chance. There was some discussion about his fellow actors and their criticism, namely Jack Nicholson. Apparently Jack sarcastically said something to Mel along the lines of: "So, how are things with you and Jesus?" Sounds like Mel is getting some flak, which is probably not giving him a confidence boost. I do not see him getting much if any support from the hollywood crowd.

It seems one of the main "issues" is whether or not this film will fuel anti-Semitism, namely against the Jews. There was some talk about movies similar to this from back in the day that did spark hatred.

By the end of the interview, I was surprised, yet still skeptical. His heart seems in the right place, but that is not for me to judge. The real question for me I guess, is what about the movie? I have not seen it yet, though I plan to. At the same time, I will prayerfully be on guard against veils that the evil one may attempt to cloud my vision.

Biblical? apparently
Bloody/Violent? yes
Rating: R
Children's film? uhh, highly doubtful
Will it inspire? ??
Will it fuel hatred? ?? It is already sparking controversy..
Only time will answer the last two questions.

All things considered, if Mel is doing what God commands, more power to him. He could become ridiculed and even hated for doing this film. Matthew 10:22 and Mark 13:13 say: (NIV) "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." I am waiting to see how all of this unfolds.

Mel says the film is "...about faith, hope, love and forgiveness. That's what this film is about. It's about Christ's sacrifice." Mark 16:15 NIV says "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." This seems to the goal Mel is trying to achieve.

Here are some quotes from Mel that I found noteworthy (all taken from ABC linked article at the end of this post):

quote:

"Critics who have a problem with me don't really have a problem with me in this film," Gibson said. "They have a problem with the four Gospels. That's where their problem is."
...
Asked whether he considers his film the definitive depiction of the passion, Gibson said: "This is my version of what happened, according to the gospels and what I wanted to show the aspects of it I wanted to show."
...
Some critics wonder if Gibson chose to portray the story too graphically.
Gibson admitted his version is "very violent," but added, "If you don't like it, don't go. If you want to leave halfway through, go ahead."


http://www.passion-movie.com/ (movie website)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Primetime/Entertainment/mel_gibson_passion_040216-1.html (abc news article) -- look off to the right on this page for related links
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4271888/ (short msnbc article)
GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Several pastors I know saw a pre-screening of the movie. They thought it was so good that they bought out 10 days in a whole theater with 15 screens.

My pastor thought the Anti-semitism charge was bunk.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Didn't see the whole thing, but saw pieces of the interview - I was impressed by what I saw. He stood up for himself, what he believed, and Christianity. He wasn't afraid of the skeptics, and he knew what he was talking about. It sounded pretty encouraging to me. Only God knows for sure, but I'd wager I'll be seeing him in heaven.

As far as the ant-semitism charges go, he made it pretty clear - he's not racist, and in fact racism is against his beliefs.

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[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited February 18, 2004).]

BKewl

Member

Posts: 144
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: 07-10-2002
quote:

My fear, is that because this film is so good, Mel has been catapulted rather rapidly to the top of the Christian celebrity list. Suddenly, he is the featured guest and speaker at multiple Christian concerts and events. We must be careful to let the film stand alone, and not link it too closely to the man who made it....

...My caution is just to let the movie stand on its own merits, and it will stand the test of time quite well. Mels future is yet to be seen. He may disappoint some, who want him to be the next great evangelist. He is an actor and a director, and an eccentric one at that!...

...Id hate to get to heaven and not find him there, but being a famous Christian and having made the best film ever of the passion is not salvation. It is faith in Christ hopefully he has done that, and if so, hopefully our hopes will be on the who the film was about, not the man that made the film. Men disappoint, but God never will.


from http://www.kidology.org/zones/zone_post.asp?post_id=1932 (credit goes to Gump for originally posting this review )

We do need to be very careful not to focus on Mel too much. Yes, he did make this movie and that's great, but let's make sure all the glory goes to God. But, as has happened with many things in "Christian" industries these days (i.e. CCM, famous pastors, etc.), I think we tend to elevate people to places they don't belong. I pray that we all stay focused on the most important part of this whole thing (Jesus).

I also fear that a lot of parents are going to take their kids to it because they see it's about Jesus :-/. That'll cause big problems...

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
will "the passion" inspire antisemitism?

ABSOLUTELY

However is "the passion" antisemistic?
Absolutely Not

The fleshly nature of man has twisted the pure word of God and been used falsly as an excuse for many many evils - contrary to the clear message of the word of God. I am sure that some of those controlled by the flesh will use this as an excuse to hate just as they have the bible. I mean even the devil twisted the true words of God when he tempted Jesus. Also many of those who claim that "the passion" is antisemite also claim the same about literal interpretations of the 4 gospels..

But the truth about it.. The people who claim these things lack foundational knowledge of the gospel. That it was for the sin of you and me and them , and everybody that Jesus died, So Yes the jews were responsibile but no more than you or I, and actually God was responsible. THe bible says it was His plan that Jesus died, the whole longsuffering plan of redemption was and is God's idea.

Actually Jesus dying on the cross (as represented in the passion) is the greated expression of Yahweh's love to the jewish people and to everybody in general. It is not hate, but love.

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
I think the whole racist thing was just made up for ppl to have a way to attack Mel Gibson, his film and Christ.
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111716,00.html

The views expressed here concern me a bit. The perspective doesn't seem to be correct and in tune with being a Christian - it is mostly a viewpoint from the outside looking in. In that sense I am concerned over the portrayal of Christian culture. It is an easy thing to lose track of when you are so involved in a routine or habit that you don't really exemplify the essence of what it means to be Christian. I've been guilty of that and I'm sure I'm not alone.
But, on the other hand, I also realize that the above article is a good representation of what it means to be a "hearer of the word" only. So, in that sense I am not alarmed. It does bother me though that the media likes to look to experts who really are educated and knowledgeable in an area, but who honestly have no idea what they are talking about. Very few experts actually live and practice successfully what they ascribe to. It bothers me that someone from a prestigious university, and who is used to represent matter-of-factly the theological points of Christianity, can say that the Gospels are basically plagiarized pieces with twists of information for the purpose of revealing new facts about a historically prevalent and fundamentally crucial religious figure like Jesus Christ.

There is a God. But I sincerely question whether there is any such thing as honest media, let alone reporters with integrity and ethics to investigate facts.

theAnvil

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From:
Registered: 02-17-2004
quote:
Originally posted by BKewl
We do need to be very careful not to focus on Mel too much. Yes, he did make this movie and that's great, but let's make sure all the glory goes to God. But, as has happened with many things in "Christian" industries these days (i.e. CCM, famous pastors, etc.), I think we tend to elevate people to places they don't belong. I pray that we all stay focused on the most important part of this whole thing (Jesus).


Well said.

quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
It does bother me though that the media likes to look to experts who really are educated and knowledgeable in an area, but who honestly have no idea what they are talking about. Very few experts actually live and practice successfully what they ascribe to. It bothers me that someone from a prestigious university, and who is used to represent matter-of-factly the theological points of Christianity, can say that the Gospels are basically plagiarized pieces with twists of information for the purpose of revealing new facts about a historically prevalent and fundamentally crucial religious figure like Jesus Christ.

There is a God. But I sincerely question whether there is any such thing as honest media, let alone reporters with integrity and ethics to investigate facts.



I hear you. The media is out to make a buck. If that means twisting the story or using "experts" to make it sound appealing, it is apparently ok. That is very disappointing to me.. being taken advantage of that way. It's like how do I filter the truth from what is false?
Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
quote:
I hear you. The media is out to make a buck. If that means twisting the story or using "experts" to make it sound appealing, it is apparently ok. That is very disappointing to me.. being taken advantage of that way. It's like how do I filter the truth from what is false?

Hence why I pay no attention to what the media says...

Torial

Member

Posts: 73
From: Cedar Rapids, Ia, USA
Registered: 07-23-2002
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111716,00.html

The views expressed here concern me a bit. The perspective doesn't seem to be correct and in tune with being a Christian - it is mostly a viewpoint from the outside looking in. In that sense I am concerned over the portrayal of Christian culture. It is an easy thing to lose track of when you are so involved in a routine or habit that you don't really exemplify the essence of what it means to be Christian. I've been guilty of that and I'm sure I'm not alone.
<snip>
There is a God. But I sincerely question whether there is any such thing as honest media, let alone reporters with integrity and ethics to investigate facts.


I've noticed that Fox News takes a very anti-Passion view of things. I use their site regularly and have been disappointed with their attitude. However, I am not surprised since they tout Sex and the City so much right now!

An honest reporter is like an honest politician: a rare treasure!

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb01112002.html

GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
I was entirely expecting this reaction. The controlling liberals in the US media REALLY don't like the idea of a popular movie that portrays Jesus from a literal reading of the Bible.
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
My only interest in seeing the film is to compare with scripture the accuracy of the representation. It may shake me up a bit, seeing the brutality that Christ suffered in such a direct manner, but it is still a movie depicting a person's interpretation of long past events. In my opinion, the movie has become a focal point and garnered too much clout over the true source - the Bible itself.
I certainly do appreciate Mr. Gibson's attempt to authentically present the truth about the last days of Christ, but I am not sure I am so impressed as to claim the film to be inspirational in the same sense as scripture. After all, how many times has there been some great resemblance to the power of God that in retrospect can be questioned as to its validity and source? I am not going to go to the extreme to say that this film is a work of the devil, but I will caution every one to consider the facts in scripture first and guard your hearts with that before taking any emotionally justifiable response.
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I've seem the trailer the film looks quite good. The depiction of the crucifixion i think will never be entirely accurate, i don't think even hollywood could ever truly depict what Jesus went through at calvary.

I like Mel Gibson, even though he's always killing English people in his movies lol. We will all see when it comes out, God may have meant this to be a tool that he uses.

--D-SIPL

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Torial

Member

Posts: 73
From: Cedar Rapids, Ia, USA
Registered: 07-23-2002
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
My only interest in seeing the film is to compare with scripture the accuracy of the representation. It may shake me up a bit, seeing the brutality that Christ suffered in such a direct manner, but [b]it is still a movie depicting a person's interpretation of long past events. In my opinion, the movie has become a focal point and garnered too much clout over the true source - the Bible itself.
I certainly do appreciate Mr. Gibson's attempt to authentically present the truth about the last days of Christ, but I am not sure I am so impressed as to claim the film to be inspirational in the same sense as scripture. After all, how many times has there been some great resemblance to the power of God that in retrospect can be questioned as to its validity and source? I am not going to go to the extreme to say that this film is a work of the devil, but I will caution every one to consider the facts in scripture first and guard your hearts with that before taking any emotionally justifiable response.[/B]

I can see your point... and certainly nothing extra-biblical should be held on to. For me, I am a visual person, and I hope that seeing this movie will help me understand (w/ my heart) just a little more the sacrifice that Christ made. There are parts that differ outright from Scripture, for instance Satan supposedly pays Jesus a visit at the Mount of Olives..

Here's my hope: that people seeing it will say: oh, this is what Christians mean when they say Jesus died on the cross for our sins. It will not be so abstract any longer for those with strong enough stomaches to see it. Wrt to the crucifixion, Gibson is supposed to be very accurate in its portrayal.. following medical texts that described Christ's condition through each step (I've actually read such an article).

quote:

In my opinion, the movie has become a focal point and garnered too much clout over the true source - the Bible itself.


Here's my take on this: a lot of people are suddenly hearing about Jesus suffering on the Cross that don't normally hear it. The discussion has brought the suffering of Christ into the forefront of the american conscious. I think it provides an excellent opportunity to witness and answer questions about faith and how mature believers understand that we all sent Christ to the cross, not just the Jews.

Another plus is that a lot of churches are suddenly a lot more unified right now, they are using this opportunity for witnessing (for example, I saw a sign in a college mall that was for a rented store front that was going to hold public discussions on the Passion and Scriptures each week) and the focus (in my mind) is on Jesus.

I think some church leaders are hoping for sending a message to hollywood for the kind of movies / entertainment that should be made and will make money. This in my mind is a minor issue compared to the others.


quote:

I am not sure I am so impressed as to claim the film to be inspirational in the same sense as scripture.


How do you mean inspirational? Do you mean it in the God-breathed sense? Or the "I've inspired you by my example" sense? The former, certainly, not even a chance!! The latter? I don't think people will be excited, but maybe convicted, or sorrowed, or affected by seeing a representation of the last 12 hrs. A lot of people need visual help to understand and contemplate things. Sure, it may not be a perfect representation of what happened, but its probably the closest (or one of the closest) representations that we'll be able to see this side of eternity.

Even someone reading the Bible is getting their own interpretation based on their limited understanding.. they are from a different culture, they speak a different language, etc.. and all that impedes a completely accurate understanding of the Bible. (With man it is impossible, but with God it is not.)

I guess I'm not so worried about putting too much focus on the interpretation. I try to filter everything through the lense of the Bible, and love the stuff that comes out closest (according to my limited understanding). Granted others may not try to do that.. but it is my hope that this is the Lord's work, that He is placing Jesus front and center in many people's lives.. and that if we as believers are faithful with our part (e.g. getting people Bibles, and witnessing, and serving and loving) then the Lord will use us despite our weaknesses!

Before I forget, Matt, have you thought about being a Gideon? I'd strongly recommend that you be one :-) Feel free to send me an email!

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb01112002.html

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
i agree with matt in many ways

I do believe though that despite mel (where he is at etc, - oh i'd love to spend a week with him as a friend) and despite all the hype and everything, and despite the 'few' extra biblical things, it will be a good movie, and a tool/resource that will be used by christians and ht Holy Spirit to bring people to Christ.. But it isn't the gospel itself. it is a tool , it is media. It cannot replace the bible.

as with all media/tools... we are thankful for them and use them only in context.. the gospel shouldn't serve the media/tool/structure, but rather the media/tool/structure should serve the gospel/vision/christ

So i don't see it as the greatest evangelical tool of the melleniums or anything, for the HOly SPirit works through many people in many ways to reach people that He has already been working in their hearts, the same with this..

As for the movie though i do believe that the HOly Spirit has inspired it to a point and led Mel (despite some of his beliefs and weaknesses, for in our weakness God can be strength, and i choose to see the movie seperate than Mel), and i believe God will use it accordingly in measure, but our Hope is in Christ. From response from Christian leadeirs who have seen it and that i trust, i btelieve it to be as accurate to the gospels as really a movie can be, and that the little amount of extra biblical information does go with the biblical record, rather than against it.

anyway i'm seeing it in a couple of hours so should give a review soon.

God Bless

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Torial

Member

Posts: 73
From: Cedar Rapids, Ia, USA
Registered: 07-23-2002
I agree .. and I look forward to your review!

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb0 1112002.html

[This message has been edited by torial (edited February 24, 2004).]

Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
Strange... I posted a response earlier but it didn't show... :S
anyway I said that I've heard that ppl have gone into the previews sinners and come out Christians. if this is the case then I don't care who made it - God is using it to His glory.
Torial

Member

Posts: 73
From: Cedar Rapids, Ia, USA
Registered: 07-23-2002
Klumsy,

Thanks for your thoughtful review!

---

Btw, has anyone else read a book called Eternity in their Hearts? Its a book about how God prepared various ethnic groups to be ready for the Gospel brought by missionaries. Pretty exciting stuff.

Lets hope this movie is the same kind of cultural bridge!

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb01112002.html

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
eternity in their hearts rocks..

i used a lot of don's materials in my missions classes.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
ok...
I have NOTHING against this movie or mel gibson. In fact, I saw the movie and I liked it personally. but I also think that while he did a good job, he also failed. WHY? 1)He took his artist licence on a movie that was about the TRUTH. you cant make up stuff, on something as important as JESUS THE CHRIST'S DEATH AND RESURECTION. 2) you can NEVER recreat the pain that He sufferd. you can NEVER know exaclly what Jesus went through! he went through SO much more than that....
but all in all i DID enjoy the movie... and deffinantly recomend to anyone! but I though I would leave you all with that thought!

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Only God can judge me.