General Christian Discussions

factual evidence and the gospel. – klumsy

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
gump and nfectitous, delete your posts in the creationist news thread, and repost them here, lets have a good discussion here, but i really like the creation news thread, and its best to keep it free from discussion, just links and brief comments etc.

anyway, my thoughts on this..

i agree with both of you..

First of all, facts and knowledge cannot save people at all, they do not reach the heart of man, and we should make sure we only use them to a small part - 1) because often our own understanding of the facts , in general is true (because its based off the bible), but we also can go into theorising, and trying to work things out (which is good), but can often later be proven to be insufficent or wrong (even though the general premise is right), and we cannot have that as a foundation of sharing the gospel, because at the moment the theory is proven wrong, then everything built oin the foundation crumbles. However facts and knowledge are useful, and if we use them as a tool, an eye opener, FOR the gospel, but with the essentials and foundations of the gospel being in the end the primary thing, then it is all good.

I know it seems hard that so many people are presented with the facts, and can actually see them as true, then choose to ignore them. neither proficent knowledge, charasma , good speaking can turn a hardened heart to God - only the Holy Spirit can work and soften on that heart, making it ready for seeds of the GOSPEL..

However the devil has many lies in our society about christ, christianity and christians... these mindsets are like roadblocks of the gospel, and they blind people to the truth. God and us can often use knowledge/facts etc to blow away these mindsets, to shine light - however a hardened heart will still refuse the message, But when God uses thsee facts to blow away the idol of rationalism, and human mind being supreme and prideful, it opens the door for the gospel..

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i agree with you. only the Holy Ghost can change a man's heart, and a man can only be saved by the preaching of the gospel(through the Holy Ghost). i also agree that facts are a good eye-opener, or conversation starter. i haven't gotten a chance to use them yet, but they do help in my edification. for instance, my dad brought home a video he had gotten from somone he works with, and the dude on there brought out a good point. what did the t-rex start off eating? i was taught meat of course, and that's why his teeth were so sharp. but in the beggining everything ate plants, because there was no death. death came by the fall of mankind. anywho, just some food for thought.
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Er, to clarify an apparent miscommunication...
My perception of conviction as a matter for the Holy Spirit and not of humans for others does not imply I deny the accountability or duty to fulfill the commission of reaching the world with the gospel message. I can understand how one might jump to that conclusion, but that is quite honestly a long jump to make.
To put it another way...brow beating someone with the facts of Christianity and drawing on personal examples in their life is not an example of mentoring and discipling them into a relationship with Christ. It clearly takes a personal relationship with others to introduce them to a relationship with Christ.
If it was a simple matter of going from town to town and door to door, presenting every proof of God, and then moving on to the next, the USA should be the shining example of Christianity in the world. That is, after all, how the modern revival movement started and I think we can all agree that some things were missing there.
Anyway...apologetics is great, I agree completely. But it boils down to the truth in the soul, not the mind. We cannot - in our mortal mind - understand all that is God, but we can get close to understanding through knowing Christ.

God bless,
Matt

BKewl

Member

Posts: 144
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: 07-10-2002
I agree with what nfektious is saying here. Don't our actions speak exponentially louder than our words?
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I agree partly with what nfektious is saying, but even by what you say is still reaching the world with the gospel. It doesn't say to stand out in the street and preach hell, fire and brimstone. It just says go into the world and preach the gospel.

I know i would never deny the opportunity of potentially saving there soul from hell (not me personally saving them obviously). Even if they laugh in your face, you've still planted a seed in there life, and on judgement day, no-one can say you didn't try.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
I'm curious to know what parts you don't quite agree with. Not for argument or bickering over, but for the sake of the conversation. If I can clarify something that may be misunderstood, I'd like to have that chance. You don't have to respond, and if you choose not to I won't think any more of it.
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
I'm curious to know what parts you don't quite agree with. Not for argument or bickering over, but for the sake of the conversation. If I can clarify something that may be misunderstood, I'd like to have that chance. You don't have to respond, and if you choose not to I won't think any more of it.


Sorry nfektious just re-read it, and i completely agree with you. Just one point i mis-read, and didn;t agree. My bad, sorry

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried