General Christian Discussions

The day the music died?...or...How can they be a Christian band? – nfektious

nfektious
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Registered: 10-25-2002
This is not an advertisement for this event nor is it meant to be an advertisement for the bands listed. This is simply information for discussion.

I heard about this and wanted to share the information with all of you. Is it possible to be a minister of Christ to the world and not partake in things like this?

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
hmmm... good question...
I guess it more depends on their motives, but, that.. eh... don't really know.
I do like P.O.D. and 12 Stones alot too...

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D-SIPL

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Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Lot of non-christian bands in there.

I see Paul Oakenfold in there, he's a really good Dj from the UK. he's always worth seeing.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

nfektious
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You are right, it does depend on their motive. And in that sense, God is the only other one who knows why they are involved in this. And God alone should judge them accordingly.
But, on the human level, participation in an event such as this implies some level of support, doesn't it?
Christ always changed the situation so the end result revealed his motives. The money changers at the temple. The woman at the well. The Gadarene demoniac. Every time Christ fellowshipped with unbelievers, he spoke the truth of God. There wasn't any question about his purpose, intent, or reason for being someplace that the few and proud religious folk deemed sinful.
That should be something we all desire as Christians. If I could walk into a bar and reveal something in someone's life and the solution to their trouble, you better believe I would do that. And I would do it without concern over what other's thought. There is a difference between holding someone who claims to be a Christian accountable and judging them for their actions. The difference there is making the assumption that you know what is in their heart.
I'm unconcerned over the involvement of bands like POD in this event. What I am concerned about is that they unashamedly share the truth of God with those who attend. If they are willing to put their fame and fortune aside for the purpose of God, then they have every right to be involved in this. If, on the other hand, they blend in and hold their tongue for the sake of what this world has to offer them, well...the case is clear. Thankfully, grace abounds should they lose their boldness.
My real reason for bringing this up is for reflection on my own life - and you on yours. It really has nothing to do with POD, but the example was there so I took the opportunity. If we only do what we do for our own benefit in this world, then we truly are of no benefit to anyone else. If our motives are focused on God entirely, what we do in this life will benefit others beyond measure.

Feel free to discuss this more.

God bless,
n

GUMP

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Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Personally, I compare this to the situation where "what if Two Guys Software and N-Lightning were invited to E3 and our booths ended up being next to the guys who made Grand Theft Auto, Postal, etc".
nfektious
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Posts: 408
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Registered: 10-25-2002
I think I know what you mean by your comment Gump. But let me state that I think responsible Christian parents who are aware of what their kids listen to and what games they play might find it really difficult to let their kids go to a music festival like that considering a couple bands are on Christian labels. I think the result of that knowledge would lead the parents to question what their kids listen to.
I don't think there would be a problem with N'Lightning and TGS being at E3 for those same parents. There is a clear understanding what those two companies stand for based on what they produce.
I agree that E3 is no different a place of opportunity for ministry than a music festival, but when you use God-given wisdom and understand the importance of sowing the seed and fostering growth, there is obviously a more productive venue to minister the gospel than an occultic music festival. Don't misunderstand, everyone everywhere needs to hear the gospel - I don't dispute that. There is more to this than I can attest to, seeing as how I don't know what POD does after they've performed.
My point, my concern, is that the appearance of evil doesn't discount the effectiveness of hearing the gospel. God will work how He sees He should - I'm not questioning that at all, just hoping that God is present.
I would assume that based on the testimony of companies like N'Ligtning and TGS that neither company would choose to position themself near a booth that would diminish the effectiveness of the gospel. I don't think either would allow themself to be surrounded by some pornographic game companies. Granted, they might be able to avoid the temptation, but the same can't be said for their audience.
It all boils down to this: For the sake of the weaker brother we should consider such things wisely. We can't know the strength of another's faith without seeing their fruit. We shouldn't assume anyone is strong in the faith unless we've seen their fruit. On that account, we should err on the side of sacrifice - putting others before ourselves at the risk of maintaining spiritual integrity for the sake of the gospel and our testimony.

Obviously there are unknowns in the instance of this music festival. My intent is to cause those who need to to examine what they do and why. What you listen to, watch, purchase, wear, say, hear...all the things we have the tendency to take for granted, has a bearing on the effectiveness of our witness to others.
A gardener who sees signs of growth in a dying plant will foster it; if he sees signs of damage he will tend to it. If the plant shows continuous signs of rotting, he will prune it carefully, removing what needs to be removed so the plant will not die completely.

Christian
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Posts: 400
From: Australia
Registered: 09-15-2002

Paul said 'I've warned you not to spend time with fornicators, yet I don't mean the fornicators of this world, else you'd have to go out of the world'. Assuming for a moment that some of these bands are Christians, and are preaching Christ, where better to do so than a place full of unsaved people ?

On another front, George Clinton is the only person on that bill I'd consider listening to, and I've not heard of most of them. I feel so old....

nfektious
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To my knowledge the only self-proclaimed Christian band there is POD. I do agree with you that we are to go into the world to preach the gospel, as scripture commands. I don't understand your reference to 1 Corinthians 5:10; the way you seem to be using it doesn't fit the context of the passage.
GUMP

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From: Melbourne, FL USA
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There is also "12 stones".
Klumsy

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From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
quote:

Personally, I compare this to the situation where "what if Two Guys Software and N-Lightning were invited to E3 and our booths ended up being next to the guys who made Grand Theft Auto, Postal, etc".

exactly and i'd say go for it, be a light in the darkness at e3.

however if Two Guys or N-lightning got there and decieded they were too bright of a light, and wanted to dim down their light and maybe not shine so bright at all.. or compromise the gospel or some important standard to fit better into e3 then i'd say "oh no"

as for POD i don't know them or about them enough to tell whether they are in the world, but not of it, or are now being influenced more by the world than by Christ, and besides i am not their Judge - God is.

However either way i'll pray for them and for ministries that go into the world and shine the gospel in a variety of forms/cultures/expressions/media with understanding and love of those they are reaching but without compromising Christ or His gospel.

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
yeah, ultimately, if God tells you to go, then go. if God tells you not to go, then don't go.

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nfektious
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Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
quote:
Originally posted by klumsy:
...either way i'll pray for them and for ministries that go into the world and shine the gospel in a variety of forms/cultures/expressions/media with understanding and love of those they are reaching but without compromising Christ or His gospel.

Exactly. I only opened this topic up to discuss it. It was never intended to be a form of judgment. I appreciate everyone's insight and willingness to get your hands a little dirty

-n

Christian
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Posts: 400
From: Australia
Registered: 09-15-2002
On the other hand, remember Stryper in the 80's ? They threw Bibles into the crowd, and all their songs were God heavy in lyrics. Most of their audience still had no idea they were a Christian band. How likely is it that anyone outside the christian 'scene' knows that P.O.D. claim to be Christian ? As others has said, it's for God to judge, but it sounds a little like brilliant marketing to me.
nfektious
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Yes, I remember Stryper. I was a bit of a fan of them too. It was sad that they crumbled under the pressure (stress, temptation, etc.) So many good musicians with a heart for God early on have fallen by the wayside.
You and I are fully aware that it isn't about what you claim to be, its about what you are. Yes, it is all in God's hands. But I have to point out that "brilliant marketing" is probably what those guys being whipped by a crazy Jew in the temple yard were thinking too.
The worst thing I've seen in a Christian bookstore to date: A Jesus Christ action figure. It wasn't so much that he was in a bubble package with a walking stick, but that he was made to resemble the Western idealogical view of Jesus Christ. The first thing I did when I saw it was say, "Oh my God! How could someone do this?!?" And no, I didn't say it under my breath so nobody else heard me. To me, that Jesus Christ action figure resembles the state of modern Christianity: molded and packaged for the masses at a reasonable price.
D-SIPL

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Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by christian:
On the other hand, remember Stryper in the 80's ? They threw Bibles into the crowd, and all their songs were God heavy in lyrics. Most of their audience still had no idea they were a Christian band. How likely is it that anyone outside the christian 'scene' knows that P.O.D. claim to be Christian ? As others has said, it's for God to judge, but it sounds a little like brilliant marketing to me.


Ahh what does it matter, P.O.D are a lame band anyway

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
wow.. you just totally disrespected my band...
ya know, this means war. lol

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D-SIPL

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Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
wow.. you just totally disrespected my band...
ya know, this means war. lol


Oops sorry... hehe. Just down to personal taste i suppose. I'll name some of my fave bands, and you can go ahead and diss them

InMe, Millencolin, Lagwagon, Strung Out, NoFX, Bad Religion, Less Than Jake too name a few...

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
hmmm... no too familiar with some of them, but the ones I am, I kinda like. DARN IT! lol

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D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
hmmm... no too familiar with some of them, but the ones I am, I kinda like. DARN IT! lol


hehe

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

InsanePoet

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Posts: 638
From: Vermont, USA
Registered: 03-12-2003
LISTEN TO CIANAN.

http://mp3.com/cianan

i just like their music

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis


midnight-fire.org

zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Lot of non-christian bands in there.

I see Paul Oakenfold in there, he's a really good Dj from the UK. he's always worth seeing.

--D-SIPL


starry eyed surprise baby, ready steady go is going to be in the next Dance Dance Revolution, which comes out in 12 days so I cannot wait. As far as those bands performing, I admire them they are right out there in the battle field representing Christ in a way that may turn heads and open hearts-----------that is what a true ministry should be in my opinion------"yay though I try to find common ground with everyone so I may lead them to Christ" and I cannot remember where that is in the Bible right now but it is somewhere in there

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
So did anyone here actually go to this then?

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

nfektious
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Posts: 408
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Registered: 10-25-2002
Nice comment there, zookey.

This is taken from Matthew Henry's Commentary on 1 Corinthians 9:22-23 (the passage that zookey referred to):

quote:
He was willing to make the best of them. He did not despise nor judge them, but became as one of them, forbore to use his liberty for their sake, and was careful to lay no stumbling-block in their way. Where any, through the weakness of their understanding, or the strength of their prejudices, were likely to fall into sin, or fall off from the gospel into heathen idolatry, through his use of his liberty, he refrained himself. He denied himself for their sakes, that he might insinuate into their affections, and gain their souls. In short, he became all things to all men, that he might by all means (all lawful means) gain some. He would not sin against God to save the soul of his neighbour, but he would very cheerfully and readily deny himself. The rights of God he could not give up, but he might resign his own, and he very often did so for the good of others.
...He assigns his reason for acting in this manner (v. 23): This I do for the gospelís sake, and that I may be partaker thereof with you; that is, for the honour of Christ, whose the gospel is, and for the salvation of souls, for which it was designed, and that he and they might communicate in the privileges of it, or partake together of them. For these ends did he thus condescend, deny himself as to his liberty, and accommodate himself to the capacities and usages of those with whom he had to do, where he lawfully might. Note, A heart warmed with zeal for God, and breathing after the salvation of men, will not plead and insist upon rights and privileges in bar to this design. Those manifestly abuse their power in the gospel who employ it not to edification but destruction, and therefore breathe nothing of its spirit.

Klumsy

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since the topic is christians playing music in non christian scene,
forgiven just this last week played in 5 wings of a prison and had the oppurtunity to share the gospel with words as well as their music more than at usual gigs in non christian places (like when they play in bars, clubs etc) and there were alot of salvations

praise to God.

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
This is a very thought provoking article and it applies fully to all aspects of creativity and what it means in the Christian worldview. It really opened my eyes and I hope it helps everyone who reads it. It is a lengthy article, so please only devote time to it when you can read it all completely through.

http://www.tedeum.com/articles/whatdoesmusicmean.html

God bless,
Matt