General Christian Discussions

Self-defence – rowanseymour

rowanseymour

Member

Posts: 284
From: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Registered: 02-10-2001
I know we've already touched on this in the "Iraq" topic, but that topic has enough going on in it already, so I'm starting afresh...

Is it right for a Christian to hurt or injure another in defending himself? Is it ok if he is defending someone else, such as a loved one?

Are we not called to live by faith, to rely on God for provision and protection. It seems to me that if I pray to God to keep me safe, and then carry a weapon, I clearly don't believe that God will protect me.
Also if I truly believe I'm going to Heaven when I lose my life - why would I want to hurt or even kill someone trying to cling to it.

I'm not having a go at anyone's faith as I've never been in a situation thats required this kind of faith, but it's something I think I should aspire to.

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Rowan GODCENTRIC Christian Demoscene

Christian
Member

Posts: 400
From: Australia
Registered: 09-15-2002
Particularly when our families are under threat, I believe the Bible *requires* us to defend them, for we must love our wives as Christ loved the church. I'd regard any attack on me as an attack on my family, my children need a father. I would, however, not carry a weapon.

I also believe that putting yourself in a dangerous situation is 'tempting the Lord', and that believing in the afterlife does not mean I am in a hurry to leave this life, especially for the sake of my family.

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Do you think this is the reason Jesus told the apostles/disciples that were spreading the gospel to not gather possessions and only travel and carry what they needed for the journey?
Makes you wonder doesn't it. Why would someone threaten your home unless they wanted something you have.
We aren't to worry about those who can destroy the body but to beware of the one who can destroy the soul.
How about that for perspective?
rowanseymour

Member

Posts: 284
From: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Registered: 02-10-2001
It might be part of the reason. But I think the main lesson He was trying to teach them was how to live by faith. To rely on God completely for everything - including the bare necessites like food and shelter.

But its defintely a good argument for not filling your house full of expensive things

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Rowan GODCENTRIC Christian Demoscene

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
This is an interesting discussion, I believe that we should defend the well being of our family and of ourselves, not only physically, but mentally, emotionally and spiritually as well.
zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Well, I have had Tae Kwon Do training---and one thing I learned there about self defense is that it is only right when your (or someone nearby's) life is at stake. And when you employ it, only make sure the other party is in just enough pain so you can run away. That is what I tell ppl. If you feel you need to carry a gun, you are obviously in a dangerous place. The Bible says that, even though God would save you if you did fall off of a cliff, don't jump to test the theory. In other words, do not tempt the lord thy God. So, if you feel you need to protect yourself, yeah of course carry a gun (within legal statuetes.) Of course don't be a bad boy and start trouble and the gun would only be if you CANNOT run away or create a situation where you can run away---which I personally have never been in a fight just because every time I found an exit. Some times you come out looking like a 'chicken' or something like that---but hey just realize it takes more guts to walk away. If you are facing dire danger, my suggestion is
1) Get the cops involved
2) Move
3) get a protection device or something if you cannot do #2

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
Chiefy's view on the whole self defence thing

there is no point at all in saying "I will only inflict as much pain as will allow me to run away" I'm sorry zookey, but with the greatest of respect that is theoretical TOSH, really.... IF you are going to exact force on another person, for the purpose of self defence, then LEGALLY you can only use the minimum amount of force as is necessary to defend yourself

practically speaking - you use MAXIMUM FORCE to INACAPACITATE that person

that's right INCAPACITATE, that means, knocked out, handcuffed to a tree or with 5 other ppl on top of them so they can't move (until Police arrive)

any other result means that they're still coming for you and 10 times more angry, what sort of self defence is that, please do tell ?!!

if you see your partner or child struck by some evil person, then the above advice HOLDS IMHO
you strike them for the purpose to incapacitate them, running away is fine - but what about your wife or child left behind ? Do they run away too ?

christian
you're right, you must not carry a weapon but there is nothing to stop you training up like zookey

however - training up only works if you CONTINUALLY train and I mean every month if not every week, you can't just expect to go to 20 lessons or even 50 and hey presto - sorry it requires a lot more than that as Zookey will most probably confirm

stay safe out there you guys

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' maties

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
What I mean by getting a chance to get away is to scram and get authorites------they will see that you only hurt him/her enough to get away if you can prove it---and you won't be legally charged. Otherwise---the jerk can take you to criminal court or sue you and you can lose alot more than you would have. There are more ways to fight a fight besides by fists----I only had to attack a dude once---he was running up to slam me so the popular kids would laugh. I simply help up my foot in place and he slammed his groin on my shoe. He fell down crying I walked away and that was the end of the story. BTW---yeah it takes a lot of training---and that is why I am all for trying to get away asap cause I only have a little training---and the theory of making an escapable situation is the thing that stuck with me the most. And all that means is make it safe for you to run and get the authorities---whether it be cops or administrators or whatever---someone who has more social power than you and has to (by law) protect you and your rights.

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
hey cool Zookey - sounds like you can handle yourself well enough my friend, but what about your avatar man, somebody attacked and finished it off, it looks INCAPACITATED man !!

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' maties

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I know dude! I work for TGS and so my avatar was hosted by Mack---and all of a sudden it dissappears off of the face of the earth---the loch ness monster would be easier to find now than my avatar!!!!!

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
I know dude! I work for TGS and so my avatar was hosted by Mack---and all of a sudden it dissappears off of the face of the earth---the loch ness monster would be easier to find now than my avatar!!!!!

Yeah when I was doing some cleaning I accidently deleted it, woops! :P

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
the loch ness monster ! hey don't talk to me about that humongous beastie, when I was on holiday up in Scotland last year, I had a ride on that thing and it went so deep into that unholy loch, that I nearly lost the reins, I saw sights on that trip into the murky dank depths, that I will only reserve for my great grand children on a bleak and winter night in front of a blazing fire when I'm 70 !

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' maties

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
HAHAHAHAHHA I have a new AVATAR---hopefully it will appear!! You know what is more rare than even Loch Ness Monster? Those Meter Maids that put fines on your car---I only saw one in my whole life and only cause I saw her place the fine on the car------I felt like I just saw Bigfoot!!!! I should videotape her and send it to a tabloid or something!

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I am so happy to have a cool avatar again THANKS MACK!!!! Not having a avatar on a message board is like running around in public without underpants-----it is just way wrong and I am happy to have my public persona well dressed again!!!!

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
I am so happy to have a cool avatar again THANKS MACK!!!!

No prob

BKewl

Member

Posts: 144
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: 07-10-2002
Speaking of avatars, Mack yours is very cool. I like the floating hands kind of thing you've got going on there