I really want to respond to some of your comments on other posts, but I don't want every topic to become like our great tongues debates. I can see it's been a busy week for you, rubbishing Christian games, condemning Roman Catholics, so this topic is just for you.

So I thought I'd take a look on your fav site http://rc.cultweb.net and try and find out where you're coming from (though I know you will say you're coming from the Bible, it's hard for the rest of us to see that). I know you think this site is all lies, but you can tell us if you believe what they are claiming is RCI/RF doctrine.

So here we go. We'll start with demonology. Then if you like we can talk about "non-forgiveness of fornication", "Pyramid of Cheops", "anti-catholicism"...

You've frequently made the point you don't think demons have any power over believers, so I was wondering what you thought about Lloyd Longfields teaching on Demons:

"Longfield's split with Foster in 1951 centred around Foster's perculiar emphasis on demon possession. Since that time, Longfield has continued teaching that demons have no power over Christians and that demonization in scripture was more likely to be things like epilepsy (for example, December 1996 Voice of Revival)."

The following article comments on Longfield's teaching that there is no such thing as demonic possession, and that references to such in the Bible, are just the authors attempt to describe medical conditions in the language of the day.
http://rc.cultweb.net/articles/demons.doc

------------------
Rowan / GODCENTRIC Christian Demoscene

quote:

---

but I don't want every topic to become like our great tongues debates.

---

Last time it was you who pushed the tongues debate, so are you *sure* that's not what you want ? (Come sit on my couch..... :0) )

quote:

---

I know you think this site is all lies, but you can tell us if you believe what they are claiming is RCI/RF doctrine.

---

I'm more interested to know why it is you did not go to www.rci.org in order to find out what we believe ?

quote:

---

So here we go. We'll start with demonology. Then if you like we can talk about "non-forgiveness of fornication", "Pyramid of Cheops", "anti-catholicism"...

---

*grin* Well, in a nutshell, I think we as a church work hard to negate the terrible things done by mainstream Pentecost in claiming that God allows His people to be possessed by demons. In that vein we seek to not discuss these things because they are irrelevant to us. I personally have no idea what the demons in the NT were, but I will say that I personally believe that prior to Jesus paying the price for our sins, such things existed far more abundantly than they do today, and also that people with diseases such as epilepsy would have been thought to suffer from them, because they would not have known any better. Whatever there was, it does not appear to be that prevelant today, and whatever there is, it's irrelevant to me as a Christian. No demon can attack a Christian, nor can the Devil, except we allow ourselves to be 'drawn of our own lusts and enticed'.

FWIW we have spoken from time to time about the great pyramid as something that is interesting, in so far as it's layout appears to tell the story of the Gospel, but not something that we claim fundamentally as doctrine, or an issue of salvation. I've not heard a pyramid talk in years. RCI has never claimed that God cannot forgiven fornication, or been especially anti-Catholic. We are pro the Gospel. I guess that idea comes because a lot of people mention in their testimonies the false gospels they were saved from, and Mary worship is about as false as it gets.

I am going away until Jan 5, so this is probably the only reply you'll get until then. I will additionally ask why it is that you feel the need to attack me constantly ? It was you that pushed the thread I started previously towards discussion of tongues, and now you want to discuss what my church believes, by referring to sites other than ours ? Are you concerned that our site won't give you enough to attack ? There are other 'cult' sites worse than this one, the site you are looking at is run by disgruntled ex-members, and a lot of what they say is a distortion of the truth, rather than an out and out lie. Nevertheless, unless you also read the RCI site, I can only conclude you're not interested in anything beyond attacking me a little more. Why, I cannot guess. I don't waste any of my time attacking the AOG, or CCC, or any other church that treated me badly before I was saved, let alone churches I have never attended.

From the site you linked to:

quote:

---

30. Members who indulge in smoking, drinking, drug taking or attendance at discos, night clubs or "worldly" parties, "R" rated movies or videos will be stood out of the assembly. Members must not attend outside entertainment during meeting times.

---

I'm interested to know - do you support the idea that Christians take drugs, smoke, go to discos ( i.e. places where people find someone to fornicate with ) and watch pornos ? These people seem to think that is OK. You should probably keep in mind as you read the site that they obviously do not care what the Bible says, and seem to proscribe a doctrine of 'do what you want, Jesus loves you anyhow'. Our practices seem to be held up against the idea that a church should let people do what they want, not against the scriptures. Paul makes clear that the Gospel is not freedom to sin, but freedom from sin. I presume you agree with Paul on that one. :0)

I find the mention of tithing interesting for two reasons.

1. It's scriptural
2. Of the many churches I have attended over the years, RCI is the only one where I have never heard preaching trying to pressure me to put money into the bag, to any degree. Some churches even gave me direct debit forms and seemed to talk of little else. I'm interested to know how else the authors of that site propose that any church pay it's running costs, and as I said in any case, it's up to the individual, I'm yet to find a church where there is less pressure, because there is in fact none.

From the FAQ:

quote:

---

THIS WEB SITE IS FULL OF LIES AND HALF TRUTHS!

Not to our knowledge. If you find something that is incorrect, please contact us and we will try to fix it as soon as possible.

---

I have made the mistake of doing this, they continue to tell the same lies. I welcome their right to tell their side of the story, but I would suggest that if you want to criticise our doctrine, you should go to our site to get it. If you want to criticise how we treat our members, come to a meeting or two and ask us how that is. Taking the word of some ex members as being the whole truth is simply silly. Read what they have to say, by all means. But check out both sides of the story before coming to any hasty judgements.

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

BTW Rowan, I'm back from holidays if you want to talk about this further.

quote:

---

Is salvation to be found in nothing more or less than NOT attending RCI ?

---

Not at all - but you seem to think salvation is to be found ONLY in attending RCI, hence we have these discussions...

I am also starting to question the worth of these discussions, and the validity of my motives - this wasn't meant to be a witch-hunt - but thats what it feels like sometimes. Sorry about that.

I've noticed some of the major apologetics sites are putting a lot of what my church does and is in the cult category

------------------
Rowan / GODCENTRIC Christian Demoscene

quote:

---

Not at all - but you seem to think salvation is to be found ONLY in attending RCI, hence we have these discussions...

---

See, this is a mystery to me, because my feeling is the opposite and it is because of this often made but totally wrong accusation that I generally do not reveal where I go because I don't want people to think that I think this is what matters. I know that there are other churches who preach the same Gospel we do, and they are as saved as any RCI member. There is only one way to God, through Jesus Christ. Saying 'Lord, Lord', but not doing the things Jesus said does not cut it. However, God does not care about earthly church denominations, only that we do what He said.

quote:

---

I am also starting to question the worth of these discussions, and the validity of my motives - this wasn't meant to be a witch-hunt - but thats what it feels like sometimes. Sorry about that.

---

That's alright. While you've left me feeling embattled in the past, I admit to having thought over Xmas that maybe I had not really given you a chance to do otherwise in how I've replied to you on this thread. If we pursue it, the least I can do is assume you're exploring the issue with a genuine desire to understand my position.

quote:

---

I've noticed some of the major apologetics sites are putting a lot of what my church does and is in the cult category

---

LOL - welcome to the club !!! My observation of cult sites is that the definition of a cult is any church that expects being a Christian to impact on your day to day life beyond the hour you give them on a Sunday. It's simply a convenient label whereby a group can be disregarded without having to give any thought to what they have to say.