whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
Looking at all the intricasies of religion, God, Jesus, creation etc. I find myself asking Why? Why if this omnipotent being God exists, did he create the world and us? Why would he want to maintain it? Why would he send Jesus to save us? It's all very hard to grasp and understand. I think this is one of the major reasons I have difficulty in beliving in God and Jesus. The idea that everything is the result of serendipity and natural evolution is much easier to believe and that when we die we return to nothing, than the fact that there is this one omnipotent being that created it all. |
Danno Member Posts: 15 From: Seattle, WA Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Hi WhiteCat, What you are asking about is the meaning and purpose of life itself. God has always existed. He lives outside of time in the Spiritual realm. God's desire is that we choose him, believe him and trust him. This was true for the people who came before Jesus. For example, Abraham is called For the past 2000 years, in order to choose God, we must believe and trust We have the ability to practice and use amazing spiritual gifts to glorify Most Christians can testify to all that I am saying. I myself have been It turns out that the more we allow God to transform us to be like I hope that this helps, and I pray that you take the step and In Yeshua (Jesus), Dan Olds |
rowanseymour Member Posts: 284 From: Belfast, Northern Ireland Registered: 02-10-2001 |
Heyo All this is in the Bible - God knew people would ask questions like yours so he explained a few things and had them written down. ... God created us because he wanted a relationship with us. If you read Genesis you will see that when God first created people, he had very intimate relationships with them, He would walk with them and provide for their every need. And because He loved us, he gave us free will - that is the ability to obey or disobey Him. And He gave Adam one simple commandment, and a warning that breaking it would lead to death. The Devil (a fallen angel) who hated us, because God loved us, encouraged Adam and Eve to break the commandment, promising them that we would be like God Himself, and they broke it. And so we rebelled against God, destroyed the relationship between God and man and brought death and suffering into the world. But God didn't give up on us. God chose a people, the Isrealites, and gave them the Law, so that they might lead lives pleasing to God. He blessed them, looked after them and gave them prophets. Alas though, Isreal soon turned it's back on God, and started disobeying the Law and killing all the prophets. But God still didn't give up on us. God sent His only Son, Jesus, into the world to restore the relationship between God and man. Jesus healed the sick and preached about the salvation God had now made possible. The world did not recognise Him however, and nailed him to a tree between two criminals. There were two groups of people at the foot of Jesus' cross as he died. Those who came to mourn the death of their saviour, and those who who came to mock Him, and be glad that Jesus was out of their lives. But after 3 days God raised Him from the dead. And God has promised that ALL who put their faith in Jesus, will also have eternal life, with Him in the Kingdom of Heaven. ... I don't tell it very well - you should read the original - it's much better God Bless ------------------ [This message has been edited by rowanseymour (edited December 18, 2002).] |
Believer Member Posts: 80 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: 01-30-2001 |
Why? I'm not sure I could really answer that question. Ultimately I don't think anyone could tell you exactly why God chose to create the universe. Was he lonely? I doubt it. Was he looking for someone to boss around and pick on? Doesn't seem likely. I really don't know. Perhaps someone else here can offer a thought or two on that. But to me there is no doubt that we were created, we did not evolve. When I look at everything around me, I find it impossible to believe that random chance could ever produce what I see, even in an infinite number of years. Even the most simple bacterium is extremely complex from a chemical and biological point of view and man hasn't even begun to come close to reproducing such things, let alone something as complex as a human being. Everything from paramecium to people just screams out that there was a designer behind them. Here's an interesting article that you might like to read that talks about the human eye, and how its design flies right in the face of evolution theory: http://answersingenesis.org/docs/1146.asp If you're sincere in your quest, then you should first pray. Even something along the lines of "if you're really up there, help me to find my way to you, help me to believe". God hears the prayers of non-Christians too. Then make an effort to learn more (which you've already begun by posting here). If you have a Bible, try reading the New Testament. If not, there are many online bibles around. Visit a few sites like http://answersingenesis.org and http://christiananswers.net and read the articles. Then pray some more, even if it's just "if you're for real, show me you're there through these articles". And we'll all be praying for you here. |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
One of the hardest questions for atheism to answer is the ultimate causation of the universe - what caused the "Big Bang"? How can "nothingness" suddenly explode into the entire universe? What set the explosion off? Other than a supreme being, I know of nothing capable of creating our universe. Dr. Russel Humpherys, author of Starlight and Time, had a major problem with the "Big Bang" theory as well - why shouldn't gravity keep all that stuff together in one huge black hole? -although the black hole idea has been answered by "Big Bang" supporters - read the link above. Creation of a single cell isn't as simple as it sounds on the surface either - where did the first self-replicating and information-containing molecule come from? How many base pairs? What are the chances of all those base pairs coming together just right to produce a self-replicating molecule? Even the simplest known life forms contain enough base pairs to make coming together "just by chance" very, very remote. We haven't even touched organelles and other celluar structures yet. It's not enough to have a self-replicating molecule - we are made of cells - we need a plausible explanation for the creation of an entire first cell! And the chances of an earth-like planet? The last time I heard about planets, we discovered gas giants around a star orbiting too close for comfort - hardly canidates for life! I've heard that more planets have been discivered, but I need to do research to see if any have been even close to being life-sustaining. Yes, "natural evolution" has its difficulties as well. The "How?" questions loom as large as your "Why?" questions . . . Look around Answers in Genesis, You should be able to find articles on these problems. I've got a small list of creationist articles and webpages on my Backflip public folders. Yes, this is a small list - see Ashby Camp's list of articles for a much larger list . . . As for "why" - see previous posts, as well as searching A Christian ThinkTank Here's an article from A Christian ThinkTank that's a good start. Not as deep as his other articles, but it attempts to answer your questions. EDIT: added statement about black holes already being answered - after reading one of the articles more carefully . . . [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited December 19, 2002).] |
whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
Hi, thanks again for the replies. I have been looking at some of the articles you suggested. Though to be honest the more I read, the more questions seem to be raised on both sides of the argument(though this could be a good thing ) It's great to be able to talk to you guys, my husband is a total atheist and although he tries his hardest to be supportive, obviously can't understand my dilemma. Thanks again for taking the time to reply to me |
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Hey Don't think, ask God, listen to your heart. The only way I can really answer your question is that God is diverse, creative and has an endless scope of wisdom, happiness, care and a host of other things. Why would He create us? Why would be care about us even though we've hurt Him over and over and over again? Why would He send His son to be killed to save us? Why, even now, thousands of years later would He still care for us? Love, love, love, He will never, ever stop loving us, He will never, ever leave us, He longs for us so passionately, He longs to be close to us, to talk to us, to have fun with Him. If you've ever been in a relationship and you have that burning, passionate feeling because you miss your loved one, He feels that 'all' the time for us. Why do I believe God exists? Because I feel Him everyday, I see Him everywhere, I hear Him everyday, I have more of a hard time accepting that people can't believe in God because of these things. Whitecat, God wants to know you, everytime you post a message I get this feeling in my heart that Hes excited and happy that your asking these questions and wondering about Him. I know it might sound corny or 'I've heard this a thousand times' I said the same thing for years until I broke down some personal barrier, let God have a chance and just listened. It's hard to be in a marriage with someone who doesn't have the same believes as you, but I'm glad he's trying his hardest to be suportive! Keep strong! My Fiance and I are prayin' for ya! ------------------ |
Believer Member Posts: 80 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: 01-30-2001 |
quote: Um, I think I understand what you meant, but that particular line doesn't quite "sound" right. Perhaps a bad choice of words? I believe the Bible teaches us that we should study, question, and apply logic and reasoning. That is not inconsistant with having faith. So I'd say, "listen to your heart, but ALSO use your brain".
quote: Well said! |
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Your right, I did word it a bit oddly. I guess what I was trying to say was "don't try to figure out God, just listen to Him, and He'll answer your questions" ------------------ |
Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
I think someone above hit the nail on the head. If you look at the world around us, how can there NOT be a God ? For example, how can the process of childbirth have evolved ? It needs to simply exist, otherwise we as a species cannot. Have you seen the BBC series 'The Human Body' ? I don't know how anyone could watch that and believe in evolution. Once you release that there must logically be a Creator, then the next step is to simply seek Him out. The Bible also says that God's ways are above our ways - trying to wrap your head around the nature of God on a purely intellectual level is not going to work. You don't need to put your brain on hold, you do need to be willing to accept that you're not going to figure out the Creator in every way. What He most wants you to figure out is His love for you, which is why the Bible speaks so much of this Love. The Bible indicates that Jesus came here to earth to live as the Son of God, die a blameless death and rise from the dead in order to repair the relationship between God and man. The reason for this is that God is *always* righteous, He is always fair. It is not fair that something be taken without the price being paid. Jesus said that the reason He had to die was to return to the Father and send the Holy Spirit, who is called the Comforter and who Jesus said would teach us all things. I personally went to church for many years before recieving the Holy Spirit, and when I finally did, the physical experience involved gave me a total confidence in the existence of God. I have believed it prior, but when I became a Christian, I *knew* it. So ultimately if you really want to know about God, I'd recommend finding a church that is willing to baptise you ( which means to be fully immersed in water and symbolises the willingness to bury the old way of life and rise in newness of life, provided by God ( in fact that is what repentance means, and baptism is the action we take that shows this )), and then God will fill you with the Holy Spirit. In the Bible, when people recieve this Holy Spirit, they know because of a consistent outward sign, namely, they will speak in tongues. The Bible says this is both the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and also a special language we need because otherwise we don't know what to pray for, so the Holy Spirit inside us gives us the words to pray. I am able to recommend a church in England if you're interested in pursuing this further. The Bible says that there is no end to human study, you can keep thinking about God for a long time without coming to a natural conclusion, or you can go right to the source and let Him fill you in. :0) |
whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
I still find it very difficult to let go of my skepticism. I want to believe, but still find it very difficult to see how this one creator could exist on his own, where did he come from? Also to understand how he can care for and communicate with so many people and why. I really want to believe it, but feel torn, unable to take that step. I feel like I'm fighting myself half the time, that I won't let myself believe it. I'm reading through the Bible again (I read it when I was a lot younger), and I'm reading through the articles you have suggested to me in the two threads I have started.
Thank you all for your kind comments and help |
Curry Member Posts: 134 From: USA Registered: 11-21-2002 |
Obviously part of you wants to believe, you can just give it some time and keep pursuing it like you are. You can set as your goal, if there's a God, you want to get to know Him whether through feeling it, proving it to yourself logically, having a spiritual experience, from witness of others confirmed to you, or whatever. But I think you should keep in mind to have times and ways to discuss with your husband, not hurrying too much or pressing it, but having a good discussion about something important to both of you, give and take and trusting each other to talk, whether it takes two days or ten years to completely agree. Ultimately seek truth by yourself as an individual, but it's also great to share things with your spouse in a positive way, in a way that isn't stressful but lets him see why it's important to you and how you want to look at it and talk about it together with him as well as reading on your own. Curry |
whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
Sorry I probably didn't make it completely clear my husband is great, we talk about it at length regularly, and he never tries to dissuade me from persuing this path, in fact, he encourages me, he knows how important it is to me, even though he has very strong views of his own to the contrary. |
rowanseymour Member Posts: 284 From: Belfast, Northern Ireland Registered: 02-10-2001 |
Heyo You should read [url=]Mere Christianity[/url] by C.S. Lewis. C.S Lewis when he was an atheist, set out to disprove Christianity, but when he started studying it, he became a believer. The book is one of his best, and was written for those, who like yourself, want to believe, but find their intelect getting in the way. He follows simple logical arguments, using only what we know about ourselves, and the world around us, to show that there is a God, and that all we can deduce about Him, points to the Christian God. God Bless ------------------ |
whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
Thanks I've ordered it, I will give it a good read |
rowanseymour Member Posts: 284 From: Belfast, Northern Ireland Registered: 02-10-2001 |
Hehe - you really want answers - I'm excited for you, and always praying for you. God Bless. ------------------ |
whitecat Junior Member Posts: 9 From: England Registered: 12-12-2002 |
Thanks yes I really want answers. To be honest I really want to believe. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting somewhere, but then the barrier of "No it can't possibly be true" snaps back into place. It's like I'm fighting against myself half the time. Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers, I really appreciate it. |
graceworks Member Posts: 455 From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Registered: 03-03-2001 |
quote: That is basically the same story as John Clayton ... an atheist in trying to disprove the Bible and ended up believing because so much of it is true. He has some useful material at: For me, it is amazing that so much evidence points to a designer, it is hard for me NOT to believe. That a look at this: God is amazing! ------------------ |