Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Any one here notes how alot of people are leaving the church but still belive strongly in God. I know people there 50s and all the way down to there 20s that are leaving the church as in the bildings. They have their own Bible studies with their famelyis and what not insted. Im just wandering what you people think about that. ------------------ |
Imsold4christ Member Posts: 305 From: Gresham, OR, US Registered: 01-20-2001 |
The church is the body of believers, not the building they meet in. Church is wherever you want to have it. Wherever there is a group of believers meeting together and focusing on God, that's church. So house churches are great. In fact, the majority of the Christians in China have their church in the home of another believer. (Granted, that's because there is tremendous persecution against Christianity in China, but that's another topic.  )But leaving one church to go to another church is a different matter. It is really completely dependent on your situation. For example, if a so called church was largely teaching false doctrines, then a house church would look like a pretty good option. But if you're connected to a good church with people that love you, there's no reason to leave it to go to another church. †Caleb† ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Well nice to know someone else has the same view point as me. Ive been yelled at by alot of people that I have left the gathering of the brethern. The truth is I just much prefer Bible studies to the norm idea of church. That way we can cover things that really tuch what is going on with me or others in our group. Then again for now you could look at it from my wifes point of view. Texas churches are just sick and mest up. She wants to go back to a norm church but the last one she liked was up in Orgain. So I supose as soon as we move we will be on the look out again. Still I like one on one. Then I can voice what im thinking. There are some great churches out there that are in a bilding. Oh ya and I know what you mean about China. Right now I know more about the Phillipeans thow. My dad talks to a church that is over there. You have to worry about being shot over there. Still there is some new religion starting there that is about white people so to speak being the children of satan. Kinda lika a backwords KKK. My dad is all in a fuss. I take them about as seriusly as the KKK they all are wrong and need to see some good shrinks and spend real time in there Bibles. Thats a half kidding idea there. After what happend neer here about 2-3 years ago I would rather just behead all of them. Reason being is that some dumby thought it was a good idea to drag someone behind their truck becase they where not white. Im not very pashent with people like that. Sence we are on odd subjects what do you think about the war going on right now? You know the USA going after Ben Laiden or whatever his name is. ------------------ |
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Imsold4christ Member Posts: 305 From: Gresham, OR, US Registered: 01-20-2001 |
I don't know enough about the war against terrorism to give a point of view about it. All I know is I just hope I don't get drafted. †Caleb† ------------------ |
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holy_fire Member Posts: 40 From: Hamilton, Scotland Registered: 08-20-2001 |
the only problem with house churches is, perhaps a solid leader. The pastor of a church is a pastor, by God, for God and is a strong leader. If someone starts a house group, leaves his/her church then where do they get spiritually fed, where do they get corrected if they say something wrong. Pastors need pastors and u find that a lot of pastors have spiritual father they turn to for guidence. A house group tends not to have that so if something goes wrong or a wrong way of thinking comes into teaching there is no one to correct or guide. House groups are great for quite study with close frends and family but I feel it is no substitute for Church. If a person is not happy with church it may be because they're not ment to be in that type of church, or perhaps they are ment to be theyre but the sermon struck a nerve and the person is so full of pride they would rather leave with theyre head inflated than get humble and realise they dont know everything. |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
That is one way to look at it. I do not agree with a bit of it however. I know of a church here in town that is natorius for doing the worng thing. One sermen I stud up and told the speaker that he was wrong right there. He said that if kids do not go to school and get a education then they are not serving God well and they will be no use to God. I dont know about you but that seems greatly wrong to me. Take one look at the aposols. Many of them where fishermen with no edgucation at all that was mentioned. God also said He delights in makeing the so called wise look dumb with someone who is considerd a fool. I have also known some people that went into being pasters because they said it is good $. As for a home church I do not see your point fully. It could be right with some but I know that we should look to elders for our leadership. Elders that know God well. My dad is a good sorce to throw qustions at and so are my 70 year old nabours. Also I bilive that God speaks to his children. Last night I got was given a vers while I was washing dishes that I normaly wouldnt want to exept. Still it is in the Bible and God gave it to me and now im trying to live by it. The vers was Luke Chapter 19 v20 were the servent was evil. I went over it and relized something of great inportains to my situwation. I am a stuert over whatever I have. That means it was given to me and that also means I should take really good care of it. I have been slacking off in things I could do to make my home alot nicer. So now im working on keeping my house cleaner. I want a better house so I am going to be faithfull with this one and see what God has in store for me. Even if I do stay here for the rest of my life atleast it will be a clean and comfterbul home Anyways there are good churches still out there I will agree to that. I also think there are good famely churches. I know of 3 total at the momment. The people in them are darling and when you are around them you feel a peace that only comes from God's persence. ------------------ |
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holy_fire Member Posts: 40 From: Hamilton, Scotland Registered: 08-20-2001 |
Your basing your opinion on one bad church, trust me God does not want you to be in a bad church, but he doesn't want you to be somewhere where the leader may have formed the house church due to a fall out with his old church or a bit of self glory. I'm not saying they're bad but they have to be extremely well structured, the pastor must be able to do more than teach, they need to be able to council, they need to be able to reilise they can't do it all themselves, they need vision, and realise they are not the head of the church. House churches must respect that God doesn't want there group to stay a close nit little group, people need to be threaded into the group, the church would need to expand until the house is no longer big enough for the group and needs to form a large church, the very thing the group leader left. The mission of the church was never to split into a small close nit group not letting people in and boasting you have the truth, a church is about winning the lost plain and simple, if a house church knows this then it will do well, and won't be a house church for long. So long the pastor is God orientated and not self motivated, not pushing away from other churches, not slandering other churches, reilise that as a pastor he needs instruction and teaching MORE than his flock and has a clear vision for the church FROM GOD then there is no problem. But this is a big big difficulty for a lot of house churches. ian |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Im not speaking from expearince of one church but many. I would give names and places but I dont see the point to that. Also I have seen many thousands seater churches empty with just about 50 people there at any survis. Im just speaking from what I have seen over the past 20 years. I have been to about 5 good churches. I wish I could go to one but they are in other towns. I live in a small backwoods town that many consider to be hell itself. You have a profet come threw and start pitching a fit about a paster sleeping around with other people in the church. I also dont put my trust in any person anymore. I may liston to what they might have to say but unless the Bible backs them compleatly on there staitment then I dont care what they have to say for the most part. I know alot of people who dont go to church or even want to know God becase of going to churches that do not show God. Insted the show jugment to the people that come there. They have been kicked out and banned, treated poorly and sometimes even like they are nothing more then durt. I personly had one group at a church acuse me of being filled with demons. Just becase I had my eye brow pearced at the time. I dont see how that is justufilebul when in the Bible people where pearced in there noses and in other places. It was considered decaration. For me I have lost all faith for norm churches just about. Maybe its just were I live at the momment. My wife dosnt even like the churchs here and she loves to go to church and used to all the time. I have to go now however. Spending time with famely tonight. Oh and just so you know im not saying jump out of your church its evil. I am just simply saying from my expearans here in south texas I dont want to be in any of the churches that are here. ------------------ |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
angel, I have a few points.. let me first say that i am not judging your motives good or bad or anything at all just pointing out my beliefs, hopefully for your benefit and edification in Christ. two issues... 1) Reason for Leaving lets go to the 1st Ok, but now lets go to the situation, that God says leave this church (and assume all offense things are out of the way).. there is ways in doing it. God says do not forsake the gathering of the bretheren.. House churches are good.. very good many of them.. God is working amazingly through the world with them, and the close relationship people have in them helps people not be so isolated in their walk with God and be able to encourage each other to grow in the faith.. However, there are cautions, you can actually walk in something that God has called you to, but its blasphemy to him because you aren't doing it the way he wants to or with the pure motives... If it is out of your own flesh , even if God called you to it, you can be turning God's blessing into a curse.. I've seen this happen in my own life and in lives of many. there is a saying that says "those who walk alone , grow strange"... amen.. Karl ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Thanks for your openion man. Still I have to stick were I am for now. I dont have to worry about being acontibul becase im blunt and tell people my probs all the time and we try to work threw them. I have never had a real home church and I really dont luarn a thing at them. What I have laurnd God has tought me. I spent time with Him, somtimes a week strait with nothing but studing His word. I have no drive or feel to go back to any of the churches I have ever been in. The reason I brought all this up was becase I was wandering if anyone might accedently voice what my dad ses is going to happen sooner or later. He thinks that people are going to leave the church and make a new one all together. I dont know all the exact detales but I was just seeing if anyone had the same idea in mind. Anyways if no one has that same idea I guess this discution is pritty much compleat. Thanks for the replies everyone. ------------------ |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
yep accountibility with each other is good.. also however it is good to have Godly authority over us.. people Karl ------------------ |
