So I'm reading the Bible this morning and one of the lines that's always troubled me is from Matthew 27:46, which reads:

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

I've always wrestled with that because I had thoughts that maybe under such duress that Jesus was actually doubting God...and that was a concern.

Well, this morning it all got cleared up as I went through Psalms and hit Psalms 22. What a revelation this was for me because it basically describes the crucifixion! Check it out:

1 Psalm 22 For the director of music. To [the tune of] "The Doe of the Morning." A psalm of David. 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? 2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. 3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. 4 In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. 5 They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. 6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people. 7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: 8 "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him." 9 Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast. 10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God. 11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. 12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. 13 Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me[2] in the dust of death. 16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. 19 But you, O LORD, be not far off; O my Strength, come quickly to help me. 20 Deliver my life from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dogs. 21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions; save me from the horns of the wild oxen. 22 I will declare your name to my brothers; in the congregation I will praise you. 23 You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, honor him! Revere him, all you descendants of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help. 25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly; before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows. 26 The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the LORD will praise him-- may your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, 28 for dominion belongs to the LORD and he rules over the nations. 29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him-- those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn-- for he has done it.

He wasn't doubting anything, but rather pointing that what was happening was prophesied! Maybe you all knew this, I dunno...but I sure didn't and I'm very thankful that it was revealed to me today

-Krylar

------------------

God bless

The idea that Christ's diety left him before he died doesn't sit well with me. I can't put my finger on what exactly is wrong, so I'll have to think about it and reply later. I know that I believe that Christ was still God at his death and that his diety never left him, but I'll have to think about the specific reasons I disagree with you. In any event, I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anything.

God bless,
Brian

†Caleb†

------------------
"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

> I don't think Jesus ever went to hell... I haven't seen any Biblical support for that.

Acts 2:31 says "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Now, the Greek word there translated "hell" in the KJV is Hades, which sometimes means just the grave, sometimes means the entire abode of the righteous + unrighteous (ie. like in the parable of the rich man and lazarus), so "hell" in this verse is kind of vague and open for debate. As well, 1 Pet 3:18-20 talks about Christ preaching to the "spirits in prison", but it is not clear when this took place or what was preached. I think these two verses, and maybe Eph 4:8-9, is where some believe scripture teaches that Christ went to hell.

However, *if* Christ did go to hell, I do not believe Christ suffered in hell. Christ did not need to do any more redemptive work after he died, for he said "It is finished" at the moment of his death.

God bless,
Brian

------------------

Eph 4:9

I think there once was a place called Hades also called Death where the Saints went until Christs Resurection in which the ascended to heaven. This is where I believe Lazarus and Abraham was in Luke 16
(which I don't think was a parable)because the richman saw and talked to them. Rev 1:18 says He holds the keys to death and hades. The really amazing part is that both places will thrown into the lake of fire after Judgment in Rev 20:14

_Freq47
God Willing I will be back into action here on the boards soon.

[This message has been edited by Freq47 (edited October 13, 2001).]

Well it wasn't quite like that, but you get the picture.

-D-SIPL

Like Brian said, Acts 2:31 is easily debateable. The NIV (which I believe to be the most reliable translation) calls it "grave" and not "hell".

1 Pet 3:18-20... well, I don't have any explaination for that yet.

quote:

---

I think there once was a place called Hades also called Death where the Saints went until Christs Resurection in which the ascended to heaven. This is where I believe Lazarus and Abraham was in Luke 16

---

I most defenitly have not seen biblical support for that. It sounds to me like it's talking about heaven in Luke 16.

quote:

---

Jesus went to hell alright, how else did he get the keys off satan. Jesus died, went to hell, whooped satans butt, came back after 3 days, chilled out with his homies.. and then went to heaven.. jobs a goodin'

---

Why would Satan have the keys to hell in the first place? Satan and his demons are not the rulers of hell. You think hell is a place where the demons have a good old time torturing people? Why would God kick them out of heaven into a place where they would have a good time? He wouldn't. The fact is the demons will be in torment along with everyone else.

†Caleb†

------------------
"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

_Brian

_Freq47

Karl

------------------
Karl Prosser
Karl / GODCENTRIC
Klumsy / Surprise ! Productions.
ME / Redeemed by the Living God :)
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz
May God Bless you, he sure does me.

But as Chuck Missler says.. don't believe it cause he or anyone else says you but search the scriptures to see that these things be true. If you have a question in scripture.. first praise God and then pray that He'll straighten it out and He will show you.

------------------
TriCross Interactive
What do you believe?

interesting stuff.
but as Chuck says, he just goes into everything that points to Jesus
Christ as the center..

------------------
Karl Prosser
Karl / GODCENTRIC
Klumsy / Surprise ! Productions.
ME / Redeemed by the Living God :)
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz
May God Bless you, he sure does me.

Just my take on it all...

I'll just add a bit here...

About 1 Peter 3:18-20... Compare Jude 6 and Genesis 6:2-4. The greek word used for spirits is pneumasin and souls is psykhai. So, according with, and in harmony with jude 6, Jesus must've been condemning the spirits that had had relations with the women...

3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins,
the just for the unjust,
to bring you to God,
by being put to death in the flesh
but13 by being made alive in the spirit.
3:19 In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
3:20 after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed. In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water

1:6 You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence, he has kept in eternal chains in utter darkness, locked up for the judgment of the great Day.

6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.

Genesis 6 is a reference to Adam's children marrying the children of the people round about. If angels can have sex, why is there no marriage in the next age ?

[This message has been edited by MeanManInOz (edited February 18, 2002).]

Jake

------------------
2Samuel C6 V14, Psalm C149-150, Ecclesiastes C9 V5, Ezekiel C2-3&C39, Matthew C6 V25, Luke C19 V11, 1Corinthians C13, Galatians C5 V22, Ephesians C3 V9, Colossians C1 V16, 1Peter C3 V3, Revelations C10