_Freq47

Yes|No ? Gospel/Theology
Yes|No ? Killing by player.

joeG

::::Freq47's Disclaimer for this Discussion::::

This discussion is sponsored by Freq47. All oppinions expressed here in by Freq47 are solely his oppinions and NOT neccesarily those of the creator of this website. Freq47 feels that once you are saved you are a new creature (PRAISE JESUS) with new views on life which will and should be reflected in all that you do. Therefore his oppinions will reflect this Christian walk. For this reason has this discussion bene placed in the General Christian Discussion forum. Although, ALL are invited to participate, I have voted to put this discussion here to avoid affending non-christians in any way and by participating you have read and understood the above said disclaimer and know there will be a CHRISTian bias...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED :P , Thank You!

NOW WE MARCH ON! \o/

A Compe***ion between two or more en***ies, human or otherwise.

Take away and add what you like until we get a definition that we can use for this forum.

_Freq47

1) Something to waist time with.
2) Something to get rich from. (haha yeah right!)
3) Something to show just how slow your computer REALLY is.
4) Something to show just how lame your sound system REALLY is.

I don't think games are always about compe***ion. My favorate games are those where there's a problem to be solved. And I don't consider that "compe***ion agains the problem" since I'm not trying to be better then the problem, but rather figure out the solution.

1) Something to challenge the mind
2) Something to challenge the soul
3) Something to challenge reflexes

Many games that are "popular" are of the last type...run around and kill stuff. Whoever's the quickest is the winner (usually...lag is a factor too, of course ).

Some games, as Dog pointed out, challenge the mind. The exploration of a world where one has to learn in order to grow, or solve puzzles in order to progress to the next level.

Challenging to the Soul I've not seen. Sure there are trivia games and such out there, and I've seen a few FP-shooters, but nothing that really challenges the soul. (Anybody seen one of these?)

Couple 1 and 2 and that could be cool. No killing and such, just challenging to the mind and spirit of the player. This is the one that's tough to design and keep interesting, especially in this day and age.

-Krylar

A challenge of at least one en***y human or otherwise against a problem or an opponent meant to be fun.

Cut it up boys and Girls!

_Freq47

Games are a fun challenge.

Games that challenge the soul would be very difficult indeed. I would imagine such a game would either be about witnessing (which would require some fancy AI) or test your knowledge about the bible. (which often turns quite boring) If you could place the game in Biblical times and require knowledge of events to solve the problem, then that would be fairly challenging to the soul, but what would be the problem to be solved? I've seen games like this at the Christian book store. But none of them really caught my attention.

You could make an adventure game where the player had to make moral decision along his journey, perhaps using parts of scripture as clues to what's right and wrong. Although this doesn't seem all that interesting and is rather transparent as to it's intent for most people.

_Freq47

Count me in.

Since you and others on this forum have very similar views on this subject as I do, and are struggling with how to make a game 1. fun, 2. good quality, and 3. spiritually beneficial, I'm going to put forth a project idea I think might meet these objectives.

I've been planning on doing this project myself for sometime now, but I think it's the type of thing would have a better chance of success (let alone getting completed) if it was a team effort rather than just one or two.

I've been thinking of doing an RPG-like game based on "Pilgrim's Progress". Rather than a true RPG, it would be more like a spiritual journey game but in an RPG-like setting (events, other characters, places, etc.) What's good about this idea is that the story-line design is already done, as the text of the book is public domain. I think it could be a lot of fun if done correctly, and still expose the serious spiritual issues presented in the book.

Anyways, that's just an idea. If you guys don't like it, I may still give it a shot by myself, but I think it would be a several-year project on my own. And even if this isn't what you had in mind, I'm still more than willing to keep my thinking cap on, and to participate in anything you guys come up with.

Later,
Brian

Either way ( the way the rate of how good Christian games are becoming) you'll still have a wonderful chance at people accepting what you put out in a year or in two years. You just need to watch out for the motivation factor.

And don't you agree that an analogy gets rid of most of the restrictions that Christian game designers are faced with?

I've also tried to come up with a medieval Christian analogy. Actually I've done more work on the metaphors between the laws/rules in the game and spiritual laws. It works for the most part now. It just needs a background story and conflict to make it interesting.

But I'd love to see how you worked everything out, because I know that people can put together a more interesting analogy of Christianity then John Bunyan did. I got the feeling that he was just preaching: when he was at a new subject in his discussion of Christianity he just brought in a person whose name fit the topic. And there was only short bursts of conflict and action between long descriptions. Much like no one can stand somebody whose personality is sugary sweet, I don't think very many people can stand that much content packed in such little space. So, basically I think that the pacing could be improved and that more action and intrigue could be dropped into the plot.

joeG

I Thessalonians 21-22 says "Test all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from ALL appearance of evil". So what is evil? To begin with we have the 10 Commandments found in Exodus 20;
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto the any graven image,or any likeness of any thing that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of LORD thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabath day and keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Thou shalt not covet

Then we have lists in the New Testament; Galations 5:19-21 gives us this list: Adultery, fornication, impurity, lascivousnes (can some one tell me what this means), Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envying, murders, drunkeness, revellings or carousing. Then I Corinthians 6:8-9 tells us this list: Cheating, Aldultry, Homosexuality, greed, stealing, and lying. I am sure there are many I missed.

Now if we take these out of our game we will have a game without the bad stuff, But Matthew 22:36-40 says "Master, which is hte great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with with all thy mind, This is the first and great commandment. The Second one is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." And Philipians 4:8 says "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." This is our challenge. We need to provide things that are good and that edify. This to me is the hard part. What kind of ideas do you have?

_freq47

_freq47, I basically agree with your approach - but I also see a need for "confilct", or at least a negative obstacle to overcome. I don't think its necessary to strip all "bad things" out of something (a book, a game, whatever) in order to make it "good" - just as long as those things aren't glorified in any way. For example, in the Bible itself there are many many instances of everything it speaks against.

One possible approach to "clean up" the negatives but still have an antagonist is to do what VeggieTales do - rewrite the bad stuff to bad stuff so its silly instead, to not present a violent image to younger viewers. For example, in their new "Esther" video, instead of Naman being hung from the gallows, he is exiled to the island of perpetual tickling.

Brian

There arnt many genres that fit neatly into the Christian gaming options group. Of all of them I could only really consider an RPG, adventure or RTS as a game that could fit neatly without having to shoe horn it. This is mostly because of the 6th commandment, dont kill, and those that involve watching impurity (hacking/shooting someone to pieces seems pretty impure to me). Therefore only those three, to me, really fit because the violence is not the over the top gore of say the FPS while still having some Christian relevancy (RTS- free the holy land etc).
This is what I think about each genre type-

1.RPG- VERY possible as long as it is created as a truly Christian game. No player characters like wizards, elves or any creature that's not human or uses any form of magic/withcraft etc. I am REALLY p***ionate about this as Ive had a very bad experience with the miniature wargame called Warhammer which is like the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons. After that experience Ive come to despise everything that has any influence to do with magic etc even if it is only imaginery. Magic would be in a game I created but only as the ultimate corrupter of human souls with the ultimate bad guys being users of magic but they would also show the terrible effects this would have on their lives. Also magicians etc would be able to be saved from their life of sin to show that God can forgive and set them free from their sin.
#PHEW# I got that out of the way As you can see I am VERY p***ionate on that subject and Ive sort of become an expert on corrupting influences on peoples lives. If you know anyone that plays or paints warhammer figures please convince them that its bad. Or any other role playing game like dungeons and dragons. They're not the harmless little figures you would imagine.
RPGs would also have a huge potential for Christian storyline and teaching without being preachy. Ive actually been creating a storyline that I think would be great for this sort of game with plenty of potential for everything while being very Christian and fun even for non-Christians (sounds like a dream come true but I think it's possible).

2. RTS- Lead the Jewish peoples into the Holy Land and carve out Israel as the Lord has told you This sort of game would be great for teaching people about the Old Testament and having faith in God (a prophet tells you to take a fifth of your men and attack a huge army just before you're about to attack a really small force with your whole huge army. What should you do?) Again you would have to keep the violence down, especially the blood, but it would work really well as long as it's to standard of todays secular RTS's.

3. Adventure- Much like RPGs. Note for both, they could also be set in the future instead of in the past like pretty much all of the Christian games Ive seen (not that Ive seen much). What's wrong with trying to survive in a hostile future which is none to friendly to Christians and Jews alike? High tech futuristic settings could have real potential and be something different to the norm.

Apart from that I dont know many worthwhile genres that would have much Christain relevance e.g. sport. First Person Shooters are by far the most popular but look what happened to Catchumen. I havent played it but from the sounds of it they had to shoe horn it a bit to keep it Christian (swords that shoot laser beams and convert instead of killing) and did not go over very well with non Christian game reviewers which is understandable. I just dont think there are many possibilities for a Christian FPS without going into the violence etc.
Another thing is multiplayer. You cant run around and kill other real people in virtual or normal reality. It's the thought behind it and is a bad influence on someones standards.

Anyways that's my 300 cents worth What do you guys think? And I hope you keep up this thread as Im very interested to see your ideas on Christian gaming. Thnx.
GIDz

-Krylar

One of the four or so projects I'm thinking about will have a "Piercing the Darkness|This Present Darkness" background with a Metroid-style infiltration action.

I don't know of any fiction book that has dealt with the supernatural conflicts in the end-times. I want to attempt to do that in the above game.

(I have the most original system for powerups ever thought up, also! IMHO )

joeG

Briant, I mistook what you said to mean that you had your own story! I just now realized what you meant.

Thanks

_Freq47

In Christ's service,
Taroe (Tom Roe)

_Freq47

All magic is, is physical signs created by demons.

In the same sense, God creates physical signs either through angels, or by himself. (remember, demons are just fallen angels, so they both have the same powers)

So even from a literal sense, "magic" can be seen as either good or evil. But for the most part, I'd just say it makes for good story telling.

your brother in Christ

Yeshua-Knight

In Christ's service,
Taroe

_Freq47

For now I am going to quietly move on to the next part of this discussion, seeing how I currently do not know where I stand at on morality in videogames. Soooooo....

We all seem to think that games should be fun. So what makes a game fun?
I have came up with some help from a book or too, two psychological factors that make a game fun.

A) One thing I think makes a game fun is that fact that it makes you feel that you can beat it, or at least it should. And I believe you can see this very well in magazines for they include and sometimes only are a bunch of hints and tips. I can go on with this point if you request it.

B) The second thing I think makes a game fun is the ability presented though videogames to escape this world temporarily into an alternative world, with different rules and laws of nature. And again if you request I can go deeper into this as well.

Well those are my two big points, now I ask you, what do you think about my points and what do YOU think makes a game fun?

_Freq47

Little history on magic:

It's real. Magic is physical manifestations created by demons. Just like God can send an angel to do a miracle, so can a demon (which is just a fallen angel) perform a "miracle". But it requires a person to worship the demon and have enough faith in it to preform the physical manifestation. Just as it takes faith by a Christian for an angel to preform one.

That type of magic is evil. Plain and simple.

Im my opinion, play magic, like magic tricks (ie: pulling a rabbit from a hat) and game magic, is fine since it doesn't actually deal with demons.

That is, if you dare to taunt Lucas Arts with potential lawsuits.

My game contains nano-tech. Closest thing to magic that science can provide.

joeG

Just my opinion

-Krylar

I personaly don't believe we'll ever be able to create devices small enough or complex enough to be considered nanotech. And deffinately not complex enough to read out thoughts once inside our brains. But it's still an interesting idea to play with.

Besides, I doubt such technology is physically possible. Even with our current technology, we're running into the problem with atoms being to big. Did you know it only takes 10 electrons to activate a transister in today's microchips?