I'm starting threads to give feedback to all of the entrants to this year's CCN Speedgame contest. Everyone did some good things this year, and I wanted to make some threads to give encouraging comments and constructive criticism. This week, I'll be making threads for 3 games each day, so as to hopefully not bump all of the other discussions off of the main page, and give everyone some daily-focused-feedback on their games. Feedback is an important part of the CCN contest, and I hope that we can give a big "thanks!" to our entrants by letting them know how they did! I don't think everyone should necessarily give numbered ratings like I did -- just some words of feedback and encouragement would be fantastic.

The Lost Sheep: (by Leo)
---------------------

Xian: 8 (Very nice integration of the parable elements with the gameplay -- everything was backed with a verse, and that makes it very memorable)
Fun: 8 (Excellent replay value, thanks to the speedrunning time system -- the fun is only hampered by the somewhat unclear controls and inconsistent AI)
Orig: 9 (Very original gameplay, I was very impressed with the depth of thought and creativity that you put into this game)
Gfx: 6 (Superb use of graphic resources that you had available to use -- your coding used them very smoothly, and I give you credit for your integration as I know that's not always easy to do)
Stab: 8 (Very stable game, no issues whatsoever)

Summary:
An simple (yet deep) puzzle game where you try to guide your sheep to green pastures. Excercise your brain as you try to solve all 25 puzzles, and try to beat your best times!

Feedback:
Hi Leo! First off, you did a top notch job with this project. There were several things that I really appreciated about it, and the way you went about making it. The primary thing I thought was excellent was the very good way in which you planned your project out (originally Parable of the Sower, yes?), but had good enough wits about you to reduce the scope of the project early on and salvage it into something manageable like the Lost Sheep. That's just A+ software development skills there, and I give you props for that. Secondly, I really liked how you thought deeply about it, and made a complex puzzle environment where each item generally has multiple avenues of interaction (such as water growing wheat and attracting sheep, and wheat attracting sheep but also crows). It was just nicely thought out, and it seems possible to develop a wide variety of puzzles based on it (you created 25 very nice puzzles for the contest). I really like speedrunning games, so automatically keeping track of one's best times was just really appealing. My favorite times that I worked out were 10.8 for "The Path of Wheat" and 12.3 for "A Missing Piece II" -- I certainly abused some of the unintended behavior of the game to get those times.
The controls were a bit wonky (sometimes I had a really hard time telling when sheep were attached to me or when they were free to eat), and sometimes it was nearly impossible to get those fluffy buggers to put their head down and eat the grass even though they were wandering all around it. I'm sure you were aware of such issues, though, so I won't harp on them too much. Intelligent pathfinding could also possibly add some ease of play to the game.
Overall, the game is nice and complete with a wide variety of levels, a high score system, and a game mechanic that ties in excellently with the theme. Who could ask for more?
The idea of herding sheep is a good one. AI is notoriously stupid and short-sighted, and the sheep behave very convincingly with the way they act (very short-sided, thinking of immediate gain, not long-term danger as in the Prodigal Sheep level). It was just very nicely done, and I really felt like I was herding them.
Have you ever seen the movie Babe? It's about a pig who is a "sheep pig" (like a sheep dog), and can talk to the sheep and get them to do what he wants. I was daydreaming and thinking that it could be cute to have an easter egg character in the game that is a pig who can get sheep to follow him like the shepherd, but he can be attacked by wolves. Just a funny thought that I had -- I know it wouldn't line up with the parable, but it seems that Babe could fit into this game so well. You could even type the secret password to access him -- "BAA RAM EWE", which is a secret password quote from the movie. Ah well, enough daydreaming about how you could do your game -- I don't expect you to implement this, I just thought it was funny and wanted to share the thought of it.
All in all, well done Leo! I was *extremely* impressed with your game, and I'm very glad that you were able to join us at CCN for the competition! Whether you stick around or only come back for next year's contest, it was very nice to meet you and we're glad to have you as a part of our community.

I'm interested in knowing other people's best times for the levels. Did anyone else work on a few levels to try and optimize them as much as (or more) than I did?

[This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited August 30, 2007).]

------------------
Nanostorm: Machine Uprise

------------------
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] (Contact) - Truedisciple (mp3)

Thank you, but the graphics is not mine
I must thank the author of the "Reiner's Tileset". It's incredible that so good stuff is "given away" for free.

jari wrote:
> Only that some of the sounds are
> bit too loud or somehow sharp.

That was a mistake due to my unexperience. The native frequency of those sounds was 8000Hz, but the SDL Mixer only manages power of two conversions and I had to convert them to 11025Hz. A suggestion: don't do it! It's better to find other sounds natively at 11025Hz (but I had no time).

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

The goal is the same for all puzzles (to bring the sheeps to grass land) but I'd better to explain it explicitly at the beginning of the game: Another improvement for a future version

Calin wrote:
> it shows you've put some work into it.

Thank you very much!

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

Thank you for the great review! I was pleased by the final result after only two weeks of programming and I'm happy to know that someone else has appreciated the game and its subtleties.

HanClinto wrote:
> I thought was excellent the very good way in which you
> planned your project out (originally Parable of the Sower,
> yes?), but had good enough wits about you to reduce the
> scope of the project early...

In this kind of contests, it's a sin to have wonderful ideas, learn a lot of useful stuff, and realize nothing at the end. I had the good idea to work on an agent-based structure at the beginning, finalizing the goal of their actions only at the end.

HanClinto wrote:
> I really liked how you thought deeply about it, and
> made a complex puzzle environment where each item
> generally has multiple avenues of interaction...

Unluckily I had to remove additional NPCs because of time constraints. For example, there was a "robber", cited in the verses, available in the graphics, but never implemented. I agree with you: the game has room for further improvements and your suggestions push in the right direction.

HanClinto wrote:
> Have you ever seen the movie Babe? It's about a pig
> who is a "sheep pig"... I was daydreaming and thinking
> that it could be cute to have an easter egg character
> in the game that is a pig who can get...

Effectively, in the Reiner's Tileset (from which the graphics of the game comes from) there are nice animations of a little pig but I had too few time and it was a lot out of theme. There are also animations of chickens, donkeys and other characters, so I have a lot of ideas for additional gameplay. Maybe I'll implement then one day or other. For example, the "barrier" of crows in one of the puzzles, more realistically was meant to be made of donkeys

HanClinto wrote:
> My favorite times that I worked out were 10.8 for
> "The Path of Wheat" and 12.3 for "A Missing Piece II"
> I certainly abused some of the unintended behavior...
> I'm interested in knowing other people's best times...

Uh!? I can't go below 14.5 in the first and 20.6 in the second... which is your secret?
Incidentally, "A missing Piece II" was meant to be more complex (in fact there is a cut wheat field on the left) but my first design was completely wrong!

HanClinto wrote:
> sometimes it was nearly impossible to get those
> fluffy buggers to put their head down and eat the
> grass even though they were wandering all around it.

It usually happens when the target point of a sheep fall inside the bounding box of another. Characters lack of any kind of AI (no pathfinding at all): it's the first improvement in a possible future version.

HanClinto wrote:
> Whether you stick around or only come back for
> next year's contest, it was very nice to meet you and
> we're glad to have you as a part of our community.

Thank you all for a great contest, and for managing a very interesting site that I discovered only by chance... but we don't believe in chance, isn't it?

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
> My favorite times that I worked out were 10.8 for
> "The Path of Wheat" and 12.3 for "A Missing Piece II"
> I certainly abused some of the unintended behavior...
> I'm interested in knowing other people's best times...

Uh!? I can't go below 14.5 in the first and 20.6 in the second... which is your secret?
Incidentally, "A missing Piece II" was meant to be more complex (in fact there is a cut wheat field on the left) but my first design was completely wrong!

---

If you want a hint, the sheep doesn't need to eat any wheat or drink any water to get those times.

If you'd prefer not to guess, I can just tell you. I figured out this trick when trying to learn how to lure away crows.

--clint

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanClinto:
If you want a hint, the sheep doesn't need to eat any wheat or drink any water to get those times.

---

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
I can't wait... please, post the solution...[/B]

---

You have shown me the light! The "trick" was there, shining and obvious, but I was blind and I couldn't see it.
In practice, during my testings, I have followed rules that existed only in my mind... my career as a puzzle-designer has no future

However, I had an idea that improves the game-play a lot. In a possible future version, your "joke" works only the first time, then the sheep becomes an experienced-sheep: When the carrier drops the wheat a second time, the sheep doesn't move, noddles, bleats and go to eat only when the carrier moves out of reach. Sheeps become smart

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

I think you have great potential as a puzzle designer -- this one was just a slight oversight.

The way I thought that it could be severely hampered is that the sheep would stop moving towards the bait once you pick it up. If it's moving to something and that something is removed, then the sheep stops trying to go there. It would still be possible to lure that way, but the effectiveness of it would be severely hampered.

--clint

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanClinto:
The way I thought that it could be severely hampered is that the sheep would stop moving towards the bait once you pick it up... It would still be possible to lure that way, but the effectiveness of it would be severely hampered.

---

If you have found other wrong designs like that, please let mo know. Thank you in advance!

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net

[This message has been edited by arissa_nightblade (edited September 06, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by arissa_nightblade:
I totally love the point-and-click feel to this game Great job!

---

------------------
Ciao, leo
APOCALYX 3D Engine
http://apocalyx.sourceforge.net