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Un-video Games – samw3

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Games are as old as the world they say. (and if they didn't say it, they should have)

I was reading the other day, in a link that HanClinto posted in some other thread, a cute anecdote about the "history" of platform games. Now, at some point in the past (I'm not sure who was the first, but..) someone had the idea of turning the un-video game of jumping around in a platform video game.

This thread is here to maybe jump start some thinking about current "un-video" games that just haven't made it into the video game world. Could this forum spin off a new genre?

Maybe they have all been done before. Post your ideas and we'll hash them out.

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited August 27, 2007).]

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
forgive me if this question seems kind of silly but i don't get what you mean by un-video games . i am not too familiar with the gaming buisness so ...

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Hrm, is this perhaps what you were looking at?

It's from a book called A Theory of Fun by Raph Koster, and it talks about the idea of learning and patterns and how they relate to fun in games. I highly recommend it for anyone looking to invest $30 into how they think about games.


Neat way to phrase it though -- "Un-video Games" -- or perhaps "Pre-video Games."

It seems like one can find a game on just about every subject under the sun. Whether it's fighting or racing or building machines or performing surgery or managing a business or fixing a car -- I can think of games that were about all of these things.

Cooking? I'm not sure that there's been a real cooking game done yet (and no, Burger Time doesn't count).

Is that the sort of thing that you meant? Or did you mean more primitive ideas? You mentioned games that center around jumping, but what about swinging? (ninja ropes in Worms, anyone?) What about momentum? (asteroids?)

As computers are getting more and more powerful, it's allowed us to do more complex physics simulations to build games based on gravity and collisions -- Toblo or the new Wii Jenga are both great examples of this is action.

Perhaps a game that uses quantum probability (as in an atom's electron cloud) as a driving game mechanic?

Is this the sort of thing you were driving at?

--clint

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
lol.. i guess i should have explained that.

I simply mean games other than video games. Non-video games. er.. i was just being cute. :/

EDIT @clint: Yup! That's it! As for the thread both primitives and specifics. I'm trying to think of new genres. Hmm.. a cooking game. That actually is a pretty cool idea.

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited August 27, 2007).]

leet hacker

Member

Posts: 118
From: Hobbiton, Shire, Middle-Earth
Registered: 07-30-2007
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
forgive me if this question seems kind of silly but i don't get what you mean by un-video games . i am not too familiar with the gaming buisness so ...



i think he means aspects of life that have not been made into video games. before platform games came into existence, the act of jumping was an un-video game. before basketball games came into existence, basketball was an un-video game.

i suppose an example of an un-video game could be a virtual computer game, where you, on your real computer, do things on a virtual 3d computer. that's a kind of stupid idea, but it sounds fun to me (i'm sort of addicted to computers). another thing that i thought of is a spelling bee game (i used to do spelling bees, but now i am too old).

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
cooking. haha. I probably could make a cooking game.
Although, it's best I shouldn't. I really can't hold back on chauvinism and sexism.
It's. just. too. funny.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey how come nobody ever made a hide and seek game(it would probably be boring)

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I did and it was.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
hey how come nobody ever made a hide and seek game(it would probably be boring)

That's an interesting point. There needs to be enough incentive to win. A glory of winning almost. What if it was a life or death situation. Someone is lost in the woods after dark in a blizzard and you need to find them.
What if its someone you (the player) cares about? What if there is a clock ticking? It all adds incentive to win. hmm..

I guess if you look at it that way, hide-n-seek has been done in video games.

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Sam Washburn

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leet hacker

Member

Posts: 118
From: Hobbiton, Shire, Middle-Earth
Registered: 07-30-2007
i think another game idea (that i made up) that sounds fun (to me) could be where you start a company, design products (with an easy-to-learn in-game 3d modeler and sound editor and all the necessary things[or something like that]), market them, and make money to research more products, and to win you have to guide your company to achieving certain goals, like achieving a net worth of $500 million, or lasting for 20 years, or something like that.

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
<insert name> Tycoon?

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

leet hacker

Member

Posts: 118
From: Hobbiton, Shire, Middle-Earth
Registered: 07-30-2007
yes, like business tycoon or something.

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[This message has been edited by leet hacker (edited August 28, 2007).]

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by samw3:
Hmm.. a cooking game. That actually is a pretty cool idea.


Whoops! Looks like someone already beat me to it.
samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
lol. I wonder if there is anything left unimplemented in the realm of video games.. Is everything now, just a spin-off?

God Bless!

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Sam Washburn

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HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by samw3:
lol. I wonder if there is anything left unimplemented in the realm of video games.. Is everything now, just a spin-off?


I can see it now... "Rehashed Idea Tycoon!"

The potential for sequels is astounding.

"Rehashed Idea Tycoon Revisited!"

"Rehashed Idea Tycoon Classic!"

"Rehashed Idea Tycoon 4!"

Seriously though, in many ways it seems that what you're saying is true. I know I've already linked to this old thread once this week, but at the risk of being soap-boxish, I'll link it again, as the struggle of originality/rehashing was one of the big things we touched on.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
That thread is tempting to resurrect. Something that might be cool to think about/research is to separate games into topic, game-play(puzzle mechanics?), and interface, and look for commonalities there or even gaps of things that haven't been done before.

Thanks for all the comments! And any more thoughts would be appreciated.

God Bless!

------------------
Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Oh yeah, Penny had a chart like this a while back, with a grid laying out game elements systematically. Anyone have that link? I'm on my phone atm, so it's a little more cumbersome to wade through search results.
HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Okay, found Penny's old post. I found it interesting how we were able to think of existing examples for most of the grid points, but not quite all of them.

--clint

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Yeah, I remember when this was discussed, I think I was just a lurker back then.

It would be neat to do this kind of thing with game interfaces. Hmm, maybe that's just too varied to do a matrix, maybe a list of types of game interfaces. Ah, here's an idea for a matrix. Take Penny's ten styles and compare them with different interface styles (FPS, D-Pad/Arrow Keys, Click-to-move).

I've been thinking about Zelda on the N64 and how link automatically jumps and the snap targeting system compared to say Unreal Tournament where nothing is automatic. Could this be because there is a difference in "focus" of the game? Link is adventure/story driven while UT is dexterity driven? Perhaps it flowed out of knowing the kind of player who would be playing the game. I for one certainly appreciated Zelda and was frustrated with constantly being head-shot by my brother because I wasn't agile enough with the interface.

I wonder what other interfaces could be applied to different genres. I think SquareSoft played with this with the Final Fantasy Tactics series. (i personally didn't like that). Hmm. Maybe it can capture different markets.

Just some thoughts about possible uncharted territory in game design.. if it even exists.

God Bless!

------------------
Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by samw3:
Ah, here's an idea for a matrix. Take Penny's ten styles and compare them with different interface styles (FPS, D-Pad/Arrow Keys, Click-to-move).


Hrm, interesting. I don't know of anything exactly like this, but Daniel Cook recently published an article on Gamasutra talking about the Chemistry of Game Design. In it, he lays out a flow chart to systematically analyze the interface and game elements of Tetris, and presents ideas regarding studying game design formulaically.

--clint

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
A fantastic read Clint! Thanks again!

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

Super Angel Steve

Member

Posts: 212
From: Staten Island,Ny
Registered: 05-10-2006
The American Original,Dungeons and Dragons was An Un-video Game.

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leet hacker

Member

Posts: 118
From: Hobbiton, Shire, Middle-Earth
Registered: 07-30-2007
how about like an eating game? like you could start out as a measly eat-at-home person (like me), and you could rise through the ranks to become the official food critic of the new york times. you would have to master all the different kinds of utensils, and finally get to use the impossible chopsticks. that sounds even more stupid than the virtual computer game.

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spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
wow wow wow, i just had a great idea about a game how about a food fight game?

people fighting with food like there are many characters in the game and the all have a story(a funny one)that's related to foods some of them are meat fans some of them vegetarians and the all are having a food-war at this high -school cafeteria....

the more people you hit with your food the more you score .

isn't this a great idea or what?

this would make a great game!!
what do you guys think?

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
for a short game, that'd be pretty fun. Has much potential.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
wow wow wow, i just had a great idea about a game how about a food fight game?
...snip...
isn't this a great idea or what?

this would make a great game!!
what do you guys think?



Yes, I think it would.

*sigh* Is there no ground yet un-touched by games?

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I know of a game that hasn't been done before, Dug walking, you're a newborn dug, and have to learn how to walk on your hands while keeping the balance bar within the other bars.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
You bring up a good (yet subtle) point Mene.. One that successful game publishers capitalize on.

By creating a world of his own, a game designer(or in the case of dugs, George Lucas) can create characters and circumstances that would not occur in our reality (like dug walking). He can then capitalize on these designs within the scope of the franchise.

The actual game element of a balancing act has been done before and probably will be done again. What makes your idea attractive is that its Star Wars--a popular franchise.

Unfortunately, it would be difficult to sell, unless you could sell it to Lucas or convince him to license the Start Wars rights to you, probably with royalties.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not as big a star wars fan as you and it took a google dig to figure out what in the world a "dug" was . So, I assume a star wars dug is what you are talking about.

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited August 31, 2007).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
lol. I was just trying to come up with an original Idea that hadn't been done before. Sorry for the lack of clarification, yes, a Star Wars dug, like Sebulba.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
quote:
Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
lol. I was just trying to come up with an original Idea that hadn't been done before. Sorry for the lack of clarification, yes, a Star Wars dug, like Sebulba

n/p. Like I said, you brought up a good point. And as I was googling dug.. I saw Star Wars and thought.. that has to be what he's talking about, knowing Mene.. lol.

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog