I was just checking over some of the comments in that post "Why Christian Games?" The most divisive issue there seemed to be the one regarding evangelical games, and that is what is addressed here, from a different angle. Another element tied in is that of video game violence, also addressed on different posts.

Certain events in world affairs have led a great number of people to become wary of media depicting violence, especially video games because their patrons are more directly participating. While I know that the games produced by the folk here would minimize gratuitous violence, I also know that there are people who merely stereotype any game as violent or otherwise trash. The solution? Video game players are expected to be able to separate fantasy from reality. Even with material that is not necessarily violent - I myself, and I saw that several others on these boards, play games in the vein of Final Fantasy where we have to separate the elements of magic from what we know is real. We have to be able to dismiss the game as "just a story".

Unfortunately, the possibility exists that non-Christian gamers playing an evangelical game would dismiss the message as "just a story". While this would seem to root in general society's disregard for the facts of the Bible, I don't know how well the public receives games like Medal of Honor, meant to reflect historical events that society does indeed accept. I know people who play that game with no regard to the idea that WWII actually happened, but play whether their opponents are Nazis, Japanese, French, Inuit, whatever.

I would very much like to see how those of you in this mission field are tackling this issue (if indeed I've stumbled upon something). I trust God can use this ministry, as people are ready to heed the call.

The real way to witness is to live a godly life in the presence of pagans. You will proclaim Jesus is lord, and they will see your life and they will say "surely This is the one true God"

Words are easily forgotten, but actions are forever remembered.

In all honesty, a person who things that if he makes a cool christian computer game will lead thousands to Christ has himself fooled.
Because evangelism is not a game of marketing. It takes the holy spirit to move in a heart and God chooses where to move, who to use, and when to use them. If God chooses to use a game to do such a thing, then so be it.

But in truth, the most powerful form of witnessing is actions and prayer. Words without actions are meaningless. A piece of paper that says "John 3:16" on it only succeeds to annoy. When Christ was on the earth, he did not only speak words, but he also acted. He met the physical needs of the people, he showed kindness where others showed hatred. He showed humility where others showed pride. He should holiness where others showed evil.

A game is just a game, but these other things are real.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

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I have mostly little kids during the summer so I don't let them play often, about 20 minutes at a time because, it really is pretty intense. Except this one kid and I'm actually watching him to learn how to play the game, yes, I admit it. His Mom is a fine Christian lady, his Dad is undecided. Mom informed me the kid and Dad play tons of super gory video war games together and it has become a point of contention. Dad rationalizes, Aw, it's just a game....(Note on this particular boy: he was a public school discard. Very hyperactive. Failed third grade F-cat so he was supposed to stay back a year. F-CAT is a very long, test consisting primarily of essays. Like many ADHD kids, he has terrible handwriting. They just couldn't read his test! She brought him here, I put him in a typing tutorial, while still working on his cursive, and the boy has shown himself as not just smart, but EXTREMELY smart! He writes on a 12th grade level, and he was going to fail 3rd grade? I figure when he owns his own software company someday he can hire someone to write in cursive for him.) SO this kid is on level five in the game, he's hit a problem he's till working through, but he'll get it. Not bad for 10 years old. All that to say, the other day when his Dad came to pick him, this kid bounced up to him (he bounces everywhere)
and announced, "DAD! I'm God's Eternal WARRIOR!" Then he went off into this explanation of how he's going top work through the problem sounding like this: "....and I think the way to get around it is you have to think how demons would act and how they can sneak into someones head, and youknow what I think Dad, I think they would use anything maybe games maybe books maybe TV so it's like you always have to be on guard when you're walking through there and it's like you have to reason things out, but then you go into prayer mode and..." Anyway, after Dad retireved his ear they left. Today, Mom called me. Said her husband told her it was the most amazing moment of his life to hear his son refer to himself as God's Warrior and he went to church last night with his wife!! Too cool! Good work!

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Could you please explain what you are quoting for Eternal War?

Tim

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Called by God. The passioned plea of a father. The journey awaits at Jarod's Journey.

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The real way to witness is to live a godly life in the presence of pagans.

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Why hasn't someone done this before?

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

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Soterion Studios

in the theasurus pagan's definition is heathen
and in heathen's definition pagan was a synonym

and the dictionary entry of pagan
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan

shows it mostly in the heathen context..

its just that certian people use pagan as an identity now, and don't like the word used outside of their context..

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

quote:

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Originally posted by InsanePoet:

In all honesty, a person who things that if he makes a cool christian computer game will lead thousands to Christ has himself fooled.
Because evangelism is not a game of marketing. It takes the holy spirit to move in a heart and God chooses where to move, who to use, and when to use them. If God chooses to use a game to do such a thing, then so be it.

A game is just a game, but these other things are real.

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I agree with you completely. I don't think anyone would be able to make a game or any sort of media that can bring people to Christ. The movie "The Passion of Christ" probably didn't change many lives. I am not saying it didn't effect people but instead it possibly sparked something they didn't notice before.

There is someone in my church who said he was listening to Billy Graham and said the sinners prayer while he was watching the television. Even though he said the prayer he didn't know what it meant and it wasn't till he talked to a friend that he found out who Jesus really is. The television show really didn't bring him to Christ, it was his friend who did (or rather the holy spirit moving through him).

[This message has been edited by HeardTheWord (edited September 03, 2004).]

but as for other media.. i know alot of people who have used the net to research christianity and in the process become christians..
but more so the biggest area i have seen salvation by media is RADIO..

in my own country, our radio network has seen untold salvation,s and through its teaching programs alot of discipleship and seen so many people enter into healthy church life.
but more so in other countries, a big factor in the huge christian revival in communist china was christian radio broadcast from outside of china..
the same is happening in many other countries, i.e muslim countries, where they could never find out about christianity and the truth externally because of the fears of retribution, but with so many people TUNING in within the secrecry of their own home listening to christian radio and evangelical radio day in and day out..
also television - a major example was in monglolia..
and also some friends of ours run a christian television station in kazachstan broadcasting via sattelite t.v to 500 million russian speaker worldwide (mostly in the central asia/russian area) which has a huge impact.
as for movies, "the jesus film" has had a huge impact, i've seen salvation through its ministry (for though its not a top class movie production, the words spoken are the literal word of God, which has life in it.) its amazing how many billion people worldwide have seen the jesus film in their own language. I have used the jesus film also in bible studies with various ethnic groups in their own language(japanese being one of them)..

i have seen of course media that fails miserably as well, i think we have to make sure we use media as a tool, and not idolise it, and see its context , and not let the media drive our ministry, but make sure the ministry, the vision, God's word and truth drives our media

i can't see such widespread use of games for evangelism in their CURRENT form and stage be of that much effect, but i CAN see that it possibly with be in the future.. the main thing people need to remember that the most important thing in CHRISTIAN GAME DEVELOPMENT is prayer... PRAYER... the bigges tpart of christian game design is prayer.. and unity in the spirit, with the group praying together - otherwise you'll end up with a product made in the flesh, with human efforts, "possibly labouring in vain", that you can just put the 'christian' label on it.

Jesus used 'eye openers' whenever he talked with somebody, often it wasn't a BIG thing spirituallyl but it was something in common with the person or their culture that he could use to relate a truth, and it was the first step in communicating spiritual truth to them, but it was the thing that captured their attention, opened their eyes, and brought context to the truth.. this EYE OPENER concept is a HUGE factor of missionary work, and i think a KEY ingredient to any successful evangelical media, but we have to releaise that most of our media is an EYE opener, and needs to be complemented by truth and meat.. so if i were to release a game that really hinted at the gospel and brought them to 'first base' - got them interested etc.. i would on the same game install put follow up material, a couple of text base sermons that are compatible with the same EYE opener journey to the truth of the gospel, maybe some of my own, but also from some other christian teachers, maybe some audio as well.. i would also follow up with a web page, with possibility of them getting in contact with REAL people (where they can talk about Christ, whatever, get questions answered, get helped in starting their christian walk, discipleship and advice and help in finding them a christian home..) for me are to make DISCIPLES of all men, not converts, i'd hate to make a 'convert' and then leave them out there and a brand new spiritual baby in enemy terrorotory to be devoured by the enemy.

and i think increasingly a MEDIA eye opener is important in our global youth culture, for we live in a culture that no longer thinks with their brain, but rather thinks with their eyes.. so much of our culture is shaped by media and visual media.. sure media is needed for stage 1 of getting peoples attention towards the gospel - as an EYE OPENER.

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

I would like to express an idea my father had. He said that when you beat a game or at some point you let the player know about the bible or salvation. Like a message that shows before the credits play. This could include bible verses or suggestions (like hanging out with christian friends). I think then you can have a bit of freedom about what you let the player know in the game until the very end, then you let them know what it really is about. I think this would be a way to get christian games into a secular market. It would take some of the intimidation away from the word "christian".

This is just an idea and it probably has been thought of before but I thought I would throw it out there.

This is often quite true. And this is the reason why I have pushed for widening the view of what a christian game is!
Back in 1980´s there wer hard debates if christians could use rock, heavy and pop music. Today only some very conservative groups keeps this view.

Today the discussion is like can there be any violence at all in a christian game...

Now what is a christian game? For me it delivers in some way, some christian thoughst to the player. It´s good that there are bible "study" games, and bible based puzzle games (for children), but do we scare away none-christians with offering ANTI-COOL games to the market?

In our development process we have used testers, both christians and none christians to evaluate our games. We have tried to find a path in between those two, which would offer the christian thoughts, as well as the none -christian.

One commennts by none-christian: "Your game isn´t at all that preaching, as I first expected of a christian game... it has a christian story, but isn´t pushing a belief on you"
One comment by a christian: "This game is mature, not childish as some games I´ve played before"

Now we should try to make games (beside the bible study games) that would reach out to none-christians. For this the market must change, and there has to be more companies offering alternative games.
A none-violent game is a GREAT option produced by christians, however everyone won´t like that. The demands are high! If we want to reach more, we have to develop our ideas, and not lock us self into a thinking "christians can´t use rock music"..

So, can any violence be used in a christian game? How I see it, let´s first go to the OT! We have heroes killing enemies, like Goliat... we have wars... now those stories were not left out of the bible, but they are there. Still no-one says that the bible is supporting the use of violence.
Those stories are NOT fictional, and if game age rated, some of them would be MATURE!
As long as a game doesn´t support unneccessary violence, it could be used! Now, Inkvisitor has some violence, however it will teach that violence do NOT resolve problems... another idea in the game is to avoid violence where possible!

So what´s the good of using it? Well as mentioned before, the game is closer to the secular games, and is much better accepted by that market... The game is "COOL" this way, still offering deep thoughst... I think that the message the game has can this way reach the people who need it.

[This message has been edited by rooth (edited September 14, 2004).]

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Originally posted by CoolJ:
Now what we have going for us
1 God - nuf said!
2 serving God with our games(see 1)
3 A virtually empty market, as opposed to an oversaturated one.
4 Square doesnt corner the market on cool game concepts and neverbeendone storylines. Matter of fact, Square might use spiritual stuff in there games, but Squares secular nature won't let it do Christian stuff. This gives us the upperhand in story content
5 Over 1400 pages(my bible) of royalty free (as far as money goes!)content - stories, characters, lands and histories, good and evil, love and destruction, heroes and villains, friendship and desolation and of course my favorite - salvation to use as inspiration and even source material.
6 And last but not least CHRISTIAN CODERS NETWORK - yeehaa!

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A great list, i like it!

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

Part of my problem is that chistians seem to think that they can't be creative, or make any kind of product unless it contains the gospel message verbatim or a direct allegory thereof. Can you imagine the world of christian art if every christian painter felt that to serve God they could only paint representations of Jesus on the cross, or the text of the bible? If a person tells a good story that portrays truth and beauty and honor, I think they are serving God, and I think the same applies to games, even if the story or the game is fantasy fiction, that doesn't mean it can't contain true principles. And containing true principles doesn't mean it has to be a restatement of the gospel.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

But also, why don't you try the Christian games of today? I have a new one out, it's Indie style but I think it's pretty unique. But there are some very cool Commercial games here:

http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca/ewfiles.php (SOL is awesome, an Nightmares looks even better)

http://www.n-lightning.com/downloads.htm (don't know what they're up to atm...)

http://www.brethren-et.com (Victory at Hebron is a great RPG, and Casting the Shadows ... I can't wait to see it!)

Many many, many more as well

This is definately one to keep an eye on: (Orion - Check out the promo, it's very nice)

http://www.therebelplanet.com/

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3rd Day Studios

"So many laughing at Jesus,"
"Well the funniest thing that He's done,"
"Is love this poor stubborn rebellious world,"
"While the hate for Him just goes on."

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited October 26, 2004).]

In answer to your question about why I don't try the christian games of today, really its because I'm just now rediscovering the christian game industry. I pretty much forgot about it and never gave it a thought until a couple of weeks ago, I am considering options for making small scale christian based mmorpg based off of a nice but cheap engine I found. I began to wonder if I could find any christians with technical skills that I don't have, to help out, and also if there was a christian market for such a thing.
thats actually what brought me to this site, and I was very excited to find it.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.