1. Tolerance
Tolerance is a huge enemy of the entire Church and is destorying the Church. This, of course, is also affecting Christian Game Design.

Revelation 2:20-21 KJV
"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou *sufferest* that woman Jezebel, which callest herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce *my* servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And *I gave her space to repent* of her fornication; and she repented not."
(** emphasis mine)

Again, tolerance is a huge enemy to Christians everywhere. A lot of Christian groups that I have seen may seem to bear an outward reverence to God, but when investigated closer, all they hold is "Christian fellowship" and will not hold other then this for it may exclude some people.
We also see that tolerance is dangerous to the Church. Scritpure says "seduce *my* servants" meaning that these where true Christians and children of God and they where led away by heresy. A general 'Christian fellowship' is insufficient and if any goup is Christian they *must* act Christian, which means a fear of God, and if a Christian group will not hold God's truths, they do not fear God and therefore are not Christian.

2. Faithlessness
Faithlessness is another enemy of Christian Game design. I so often here 'we have to be reasonable' or 'rome wasn't build in a day'. I would ask any man who makes these statement to find them supported in scripture.
Contrarily we find

Matthew 21:21-22 KJV
"Jesus answered and said unto them, 'Verily, I say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this <which is done> to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, beleiving, ye shall recieve."

Now, the only reason we have little, is because we doubt much because 'we have to be reasonable, God will never do that, that's too much to ask'
As in God is finite that we might expend His wealth
Forms of Faithlessness
a. Reluctency -- We are hesitant to do anything, for it seems futile.
b. Discouragement -- We become discouraged by the present prediciment(s) and therefore give up all hope.
c. 'Eyes of Man' -- we view things the way man views things and judge accordingly to what 'we' can do, rather then relying to God.

3.Apathy (all forms thereof)
Another enemy is Apathy. Many Christians I find, all together do not care of Christian Game dev. They are quite content to live comfortably in their expensive home, drive their expensive car, watch their expensive TV etc.
Another form of apathy is as follows, it is when they may be in Christian dev, but only as a passtime or hobby. They are only into this for their personal pleasure and when it becomes unpleasureable, they will discontinue their activities.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

Advice for Christian Game Devs: No matter how much zeal/passion you have, you must have direction and wisdom to properly channel that passion/zeal to be constructive. Otherwise, your going all over the place and you’ll never have any goals or purposes.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' maties

quote:

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Originally posted by c h i e f y:
InsanePoet
you are coming up against ppl in your domain, social, working where they are attempting to compromise your RIGID beliefs/stance
don't you see that InsanePoet ? hence "Rome was built in a day"
this is a statement to say "One step at a time"
ppl who enjoy their modern cars and modern TVs and modern homes, what on earth are you saying there ? They shouldn't enjoy these things ? I assume they worked for them and didn't come by them by pulling a few armed robberies

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You obviously don't have any idea what i am talking about.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Originally posted by GUMP:
BTW, I'm assuming you mean "tolerance of sin"?

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sin, heresy, etc

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

Love in Christ
Gift the Game Hobbyist

quote:

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Originally posted by Gift:
He's talking about me.

Love in Christ
Gift the Game Hobbyist

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ok...?

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

Love in Christ
Gift

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Another form of apathy is as follows, it is when they may be in Christian dev, but only as a passtime or hobby. They are only into this for their personal pleasure and when it becomes unpleasureable, they will discontinue their activities.

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Its not that it becomes unpleasurable but that there are many more pressing/interesting things. But, when I finaly do settle down to code its all good.

Love in Christ
Gift

quote:

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Originally posted by Insanepoet:
which means a fear of God, and if a Christian group will not hold God's truths, they do not fear God and therefore are not Christian.

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One word: Bono. :P

Insanepoet: it seems to me you are angry that other Christians don't share your passion for Christian Game development and your particular beliefs. Your response to Chiefy seems quite rude and arrogant.

You have to learn to accept that God places so many different callings on people's lives. Some people He calls to be Christian game developers, and He gives them the vision and ability to complete games that bring the gospel into homes around the world, but the *vast* majority of christians are not called to be Christian game developers. And is it your place to critize if they spend some of the spare time tinkering with game programming for pleasure ?? Your original post seems to imply that Christians who not care for Christian game development automatically go on to lead godless lives of luxury.

Tolerance can be a virtue. Notice how God says "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication". That's God tolerating her, just as he tolerates us everytime we sin and gives us time to repent.

I am impressed by your faith in God but I would urge you to truly seek the answer to the following question: Have I completely surrendered my life and my abilities to God's will? I don't mean to discourage you, but it seems from your posts that your motivation is not joyfull service of God, but something else.

Grace and Peace

Rowan

I said what I did to cheify, because I don't really think he knows what I am talking about, i'm sorry if it came across as arrogent.

Being in joyful service of the Lord does not mean being Mr. Smiles all the time. You need to be serious, it may not always be cheerly and sunshiny, but issues that tear us down need to be adressed.

btw - giving time for her to repent is compassion and mercy, not tolerance.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Colossians 3:23 - New Living Translation:
Work hard and cheerfully at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people.

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Does this verse indicate that working for the Lord is something to be happy about? Does this then mean that the joy of the Lord will be evident in your countenance? Would your attitude and behavior also follow suit in that same joy?
I have read many times where Jesus' actions toward the money changers is used as an example (actually a justification) for us as Christ-followers to behave with anger or indignation toward those who we (feel)(think)(believe)(judge)(assume)(blame) to be derelict with our understanding of what it means to be like Christ or our understanding of what Scripture says or doesn't say about an issue. This is wrong.
Why? Because Christ came with a distinct mission above and beyond the mission He charged us, His followers, with. Christ came to die for our sins and to save the world from eternal death and damnation. We cannot do that, no matter how hard we try. We are responsible for living the life of righteousness and holiness, and in doing so ministering to those who need to hear the Good News of Christ so they too can be saved like we have been and in turn live the life of righteousness and holiness and be "ministers unto salvation".
Christianity is not about dying like Christ - it's about living like Him. It's a simple point but one that obviously is confused by so many Christians. As a result, the world - those in need of eternal life - are confused and still in need.

My apologies for "preaching". I wanted to share a revelation I received while pondering the comments here (the forums as a whole). I hope it is to the benefit of at least one person.

God Bless,
Matt

Colossians 2:23 KJV
"And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily as to the Lord, and not unto men."
1. This verse isn't even talking about combating evil in the first place.
2. heartily does not = cheerfully.

You may want to have your loving fuzz ball as a God and everything is happy bunnies. This is a war, people, a war we have been called to arms to (I am speaking in terms as the Church at whole, not just Christian game dev), all Christians are in this war, our goal is to confront the evil today, if we fail to fight, we fail to obey God.

So, I am merely trying to confront the issues that effect the church, If i will be blasted because I am serious and not all cheery and peppy, then so be it.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Tolerance can be a virtue. Notice how God says "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication". That's God tolerating her, just as he tolerates us everytime we sin and gives us time to repent.

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I'm not sure this is the type of "tolerance" he's talking about - then again, there seems to be a lot of shades to the whole "tolerance" thing. It ranges from "Let's respect each others' beliefs" to "How dare you impose your beliefs on me! How intolerant!"

It becomes quite obvious that some forms of "tolerance" can lead to people shutting God out of their minds . If we tell somebody about Christ, we are "preaching" or "imposing beliefs" .

There's also increasing pressure from the "tolerance" movements for people of all religions, including Christianity, to accept as "natural" or "normal" things that are obviously sinful. If we don't accept them as "natural" or "normal", we are accused of intolerance or bigotry . It's like we're being taught what to believe!

You are making demands on yourself and others that are NOT from God, and this is always going to make you unhappy. For example, you seem to insist on using the KJV translation, yet your lack of understaning of the old english it was written in, prevents you from understanding the scripture itself. Translations like the NLT which use modern casual english often convey the meaning better than the more literal translations because they take more than just the meanings of the original words, but the meanings of the language constructs and phrases that we, who are not Greek and Hebrew scholars, are unaware of.

I have great confidence in you; I take great pride in you. I am greatly encouraged; in all our troubles my joy knows no bounds.

Is Paul doing as you say "You may want to have your loving fuzz ball as a God and everything is happy bunnies"?

Paul knows that not all is happy bunnies, but he also knows that our God is greater than all of these problems. He doesn't ignore conflict, he just sees in its proper context. Paul also has deep understanding of the Father's heart and can joyfully endure all manner of hardships because he knows how much the Father loves him.

I pray you would receive a revelation of the Father's heart for you, and that it would fill your heart with pure joy which is pleasing to God.

Grace and Peace

Rowan

NLT is pretty good, but NASB seems to be speaking to me right now. KJV has some words that are way out there, lucre? lest? and many others they are all words that I had to look up in a dictionary not good to read a translation to old english then have to translate it your self to modern english. And then you get the folks that translate their prayers back to the old english. Its all a bit to complicated. KJV is still a good translation. CEV really rubs me the wrong way, but I still read it.

Love in Christ
Gift

Gift--
1. The version of Bible you deem valid should not be determined on how it makes you feel. NTL is straitout inaccurate and really shouldn't be used. NASB is fine to my knowledge and I am unfamiliar with CEV. Remember to try the spirits.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

Insane: I'm sorry if I assume to much, perhaps you'd like to share with us about your studies of the NLT. It seems from your post that you think the NLT is inaccurate because it differs to the KJV. The KJV has errors and is certainly *not* the most accurate translation, despite what some churches teach. Translation techniques have improved since the time of the KJV and we have also discovered more original texts, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I believe having the KJV forced upon them has driven so many people away from Christ because it has made His Word inaccessible to the average person. Its comparable to the old Roman Catholic tradition of giving mass in Latin.

quote:

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Remember the spirits

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Gift: With a few exceptions such as the JW/Mormon bibles, most Bibles are 99.99% accurate (there is no such thing as a perfect translation). The small differences that occur between the major translations such as the NIV/NLT/NASB do not affect the meaning of the scripture. In the NIV the translators list at the bottom of each chapter any particular word translations they weren't sure about. If I were you I would find a translation that you find easy to read, because then you will be more inclined to read it. Reading the Bible should be pleasureable

"God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him."

Grace and Peace

Rowan

I agree with you on this: heartily does not eaqual cheerfully. Heartily means much more than being cheerful - but the entire meaning includes an attitude of positivity and overall joy. Look here http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=heartily to see why I used the NLT.
My use of the New Living Translation has nothing to do with the message that passage contains. I could have quoted from the original Greek if that would have been better for you, but it still would have needed a translation to English. What matters is not the version of the Bible but that it is the Bible I am using. I could have easily quoted some famous Christian person who had some interesting quip about joy and working for God, but I chose the Bible instead.

I agree we have a war on our hands. The war has been going on since the beginning of Creation. I am a soldier in that war, along side of you and the other Christians here. Don't fight me - I am not the enemy.

I am blasting you because you were wrong to say the things you said in response to my post. My initial post, however, was not an attack on you. If I had known that I were going to step on your toes by posting what I did, I would have started a new thread to avoid offending you so easily.

Get over it and get back to the frontlines. I don't hold any grievance against you now, but I felt led to say these words to you for your benefit.

God bless you and your work for Him.

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For what it's worth: PLUR = Peace, Love, Unity and Respect.

God bless,
Matt

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited March 12, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited March 12, 2003).]

1. I was only adressing you, matt, about the NLT and that verse. The NLT version was only a side note, and not main point
2. I was mainly adressing Rowan's points. Sorry, i just jumbled yours and his post into one.
3. my 'loving fuzzball' is what I am interpreting when I read some of these posts. Saying that my seriousness is 'not filled with joy'
I should have read that post over again matt, not *all* of that was adressed to you. (I realize that it does look like it is all adressed to you)

ROWAN:

Please do not misquote me like that. Scriptures say to try the spirits and seek out discerment. We are not to be babes tossed by every wind.

Keep the faith and the good fight.
God bless,
Matt

I don't know if anybody explicitly clarified yet, but I think the tolerance of what InsanePoet is talking about is the kind that lets people step all over Christianity. Loving homosexuals is right and what we're called to do; saying homosexuality is natural and okay is something that would be wrong, but that is what the tolerance movement would promote. They confuse love with acceptance (hmm, i wonder a bit on using the word 'acceptance' instead of something else).

I am not entirely sure what using the gift of discerning of spirits has to do with the accuracy of the NLT. Are you suggesting that it is demonic? Have you used this gift?

I have no wish to get into an argument with you. I initially posted on this topic because I was shocked by your attitude to other Christians, but that seems to have become worse with each post.

You say you have joy but I don't see any in what you've said. Thats just my observation.

Supposing you were entirely correct - and all my beliefs were heresy. Can you minister to me? Can I come to you and confess my fault. No, because you have let your anger create division. Zeal for the Lord without compassion and humility is meaningless.

Let us consider what a stranger might think of this conversation. Would he see love and joy and unity and compassion, the fruits of the Spirit?

Grace and Peace bro

Rowan

When I said 'try the spirits' I was refering to Bible versions, I was meaning is don't just take what someone give to you. For example, someone hands you a paraphrased Bible, such as the NLT version, don't just accept it as being %100 percent accurate. Always try the spirits.

Being a joyful Christian does not mean being Mr. Smiles all the time and being a loving Christian does not mean telling people what they want to hear, it means speaking the truth.

quote:

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Being a joyful Christian does not mean being Mr. Smiles all the time

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Perhaps, but it DOES mean being all things to all men and causing no offence but for the Gospels sake. Not claiming perfection in any way, but it seems to me the 'Mr Smiles' thing is a little played out, and perhaps a personal excuse to behave unseemly.

quote:

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and being a loving Christian does not mean telling people what they want to hear, it means speaking the truth.

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That much I surely agree with.

quote:

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Originally posted by InsanePoet02:
When I said 'try the spirits' I was refering to Bible versions, I was meaning is don't just take what someone give to you. For example, someone hands you a paraphrased Bible, such as the NLT version, don't just accept it as being %100 percent accurate. Always try the spirits.

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You explain what you are talking about, give me one reason why a translation like the NKJV is better than the NIV, and apologize to people like cheify for being rude and we'll call it quits .

Ok maybe just the first two

Grace and Peace

Rowan

quote:

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o ean poieete, ek psihees ergazesthe ows tow kiriow, kai ouk anthrowpois.

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o ean poieete (whatever you do)
ek psihees (from the heard/soul)
ergazesthe ((imperative) work)
ows tow kiriow (as to the Lord)
kai ouk anthrowpois (and not to men (people)).

although you shouldn't trust my translation/copying/etc... (for all you know I could be lying/making things up), but both the KJV and TLB seem
to be slightly paraphrasing... except that in old english, heartily didn't
have the same coloquial implications as it does today. When I hear the word
heartily, i think of

quote:

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(must be said with posh british accent) "Oh I say old thing, do be a good chap and bowl a bit more heartily, wot! Cricket just isn't the same, dontcha know, when ones bowler is practically dropping the ball, not even trying, eh?"

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sort of thing. Anyway. Just meandering around dropping random thoughts...

Dan

PS - What does "joyfully" mean, if not happy... or at least cheerful/being positive.
PPS - And also, is it just acting then? Or do you really have to mean it?
PPPS - If so... How does one make onesself mean something?
PPPPS - Sorry for going a bit off-topic.