I am a Christian, and a game developer, and will reply with my thoughts once others have had a chance.

-Snyicker

I tried to start a thread recently about the fact that it seems to me that we have a very insular subculture happening here where people lock themselves away and think that their games are going to save the world, when really it would be better to be programmers in the real world, SURROUNDED by unGodly people and being a good testimony and witness to them in our daily lives. But that soon went to seed, perhaps in part because it was me who said it. When people claim that God is inspiring their game, or Satan is putting bugs in to slow it down, the net result is rather frightening, and yet one more reason why I have to explain what a Christian means when I tell people of my faith, lest I be made a laughing stock by proxy. People can mock me for the Gospel ( and do, even here ), but it's a shame that most of what people think is Christianity is really quite silly and has nothing to do with God.

Games, to me, is just another medium to tell a story. So, the reason I make Christian video games is the same reason CS Lewis wrote his stories, which is the glorify God and worship Him in the form of a story.

I do not think that my games is going ot save the world and that millions will come to salvation because it's JUST A GAME.

People try to make games to be some great evangelistic tool, but the greatest evangelistic tool is how you live your lives and the way the Gospel is spread is through individual basis.

So, yes, it is good to be a programmer (or whatnot) surrouned by the ungodly, for they will see how you live your life and they will say that the God of the Bible must be real (If you live righteously, or course)

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

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People try to make games to be some great evangelistic tool, but the greatest evangelistic tool is how you live your lives and the way the Gospel is spread is through individual basis.

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I agree totally.

Personally I got into Christian game development because God told me too.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

FPS--probably not; if so, probably we won't call it just "FPS", because the focus would be on other things too--there needs to be content that moves people enough to actually begin to change their worldview with what they see, learn, and realize.

A 2D or 3D game with the focus not on, or not just on shooting might do it if the content can bring them close to Jesus, God in the lives of people, situations or issues that have an impact on beliefs, etc.

A quiz game, presentation, etc. could try to do the same thing if the content moves people.

I think the possibilities for affecting people include:

Something that brings Christianity to people in a way that they didn't get in their personal life or through the media. Something that gives them a new look at God, Christ, faith, etc. that is strong enough and appeals enough to them in a way that they can relate to, so that they are inspired to have faith. This would be true evangelism through software. Kids with no church and no Christian influence in school or media. People in other countries. Adults who haven't given much thought to faith recently.

Something that exposes the truth about an issue that media and educational bias has covered up dishonestly--an issue in Christianity or another important moral issue. Besides helping with the issue, this will put people on track about right and wrong and open their eyes some, contributing to their mental and spiritual growth as they can find out who, and what thought system, is aligned with each side of these issues. Just about anyone could be a candidate, especially younger people but all ages are unaware of important considerations for many issues.

Something that strengthens the faith of those who already believe so that their faith will be built on better foundation in the future and will not fall away, or will have a better life in their faith. Something gives them more supporting information about Christianity or about important issues, so that when they meet the opposing side with its arguments (and often even control of the social situation) they will not be defenseless. Something that teaches in a way that Sunday school teaches. Could be for any believer, young or old depending on the subject.

Something that reaches out to those who have fallen away or withdrawn some because of rebellion against something else, misunderstanding, lack of understanding, confusion, social pressure, opposing propaganda, etc. Would have to connect with them in a special way and get past the obstacles that have been built up.

So, all of those are possibilities for software if the aim is to really evangelize or change people. The content has to be designed from the start with that in mind.

Games can also just entertain with a Christian or moral theme, and that's a good endeavor too. I personally would like to evangelize, motivate people on important issues, and spread truth and awareness to combat filtering and bias, but sometimes people need entertainment and they need something that is good rather than bad or neutral, so if I got an idea for a good entertainment Christian or moral game I'd probably do that too. However, with the state the world is in, if people are going to do something I would say consider trying to change people or give those who already believe something practical to help them out with their life and faith.

So far I've just done educational software, and I'm going to continue to do that, but try to get into issues and Christian software as well.

Curry

[This message has been edited by Curry (edited December 23, 2002).]

You are right, God gives the increase. He has chosen the foolishness of preaching to spread His Word, and I don't think any media is 'off limits' to that. But the barriers you face are:

1. The Christian games I have seen are never anywhere near as good as secular games.
2. I've never seen a Christian game for sale in a secular store.
3. People who are playing games are unlikely to think too much about the story, or to think of it as real.
4. The odds are SO against anyone not already interested in Christianity buying a Christian game that it seems almost impossible that they will even come into the hands you most want them to. I found this site because friends at work bagged me out after seeing it on SomethingAwful.com. And that is pretty much how the world sees Christian video games.

Christian games are played by teenagers in the Bible belt who have no choice.

I'd have a far less jaded view if I met one person who was a Godless heathen until they finished a game and decided they needed to find a church. It would help if I hadn't had people here tell me that Satan puts bugs in their code. I thought they were *joking*. Sadly, they were not.

If you want to write Christian games, then go for it. But don't think it's your 'calling from God', lest you feel it's the thing you need to prioritise, rather than getting out and actually meeting people and telling them about the Gospel. That's what I tried to say a few weeks ago, I think that point was missed in the feeding frenzy that ensued, so it's worth repeating. It's a hobby, and at best, it's a way to start a conversation amongst unsaved gamers. It's not going to top the chart, or be sold in a mainstream store, and the odds are greatly against anyone finding Jesus solely as a result of it.

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Personally I got into Christian game development because God told me too.

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How interesting. Was there a hand on the wall, or a voice from the sky ? Did He explain why He wants you to write video games ? I am intruiged....

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A movie at least tells a story, a song at least gets people to sing along, but to suggest the story of a game will save someone is to suggest that everyone who plays Quake or Doom wants a chance to run in a corridor and shoot their friends. People simply do not engage their minds when they play games in that way.

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I don’t think I mentioned that it will save them. I mentioned that it can be a step, you plant a seed, and God takes care of it, it’s a process, it’s unlikely that someone will be ‘instantly’ saved. You mention that a movie tell a story, and you can sing with music, what about the message a story holds, a story is a story, no matter where or how it’s used, it still holds that quality.

I feel sad for you OzMan, your really trashed up by your lack of love, joy, peace, encouragement, gentleness, kindness, your lack of faith in what God could do with this. It reminds me of when a lot of Christians were against anything new, the radio, tv, the internet, music, now games. I can see it all over your post, why so glum chum?

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If you want to write Christian games, then go for it. But don't think it's your 'calling from God', lest you feel it's the thing you need to prioritise, rather than getting out and actually meeting people and telling them about the Gospel. That's what I tried to say a few weeks ago, I think that point was missed in the feeding frenzy that ensued, so it's worth repeating. It's a hobby, and at best, it's a way to start a conversation amongst unsaved gamers. It's not going to top the chart, or be sold in a mainstream store, and the odds are greatly against anyone finding Jesus solely as a result of it.

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I think it’s humorous that you “know” that it’s not my calling, that you “know” that all Christian games will fail, never sell in mainstream stores and that they won’t be used as steps in order to further someone to starting a relationship with him and also that you “know” so much about me. I work for a school board, with employees who have a anti-Christian view, and schools with neutral laws that try to balance everything out and please everyone. So I love people for who they are, have conversations with them, cheer them up and they open up to me slowly, then I have different chances to share with them now and then. The way your suggesting is that I should march into my work place with my Bible and start Bible-thumping them till they croak or convert. Not gonna happen.

To let you in on the calling part: I was relaxing on a summer day, I was alone, enjoying the sun, the grass, the sky, those little red rocks, etc. when I started to talk to God, we started to get into a conversation and He told me that I should create Christian games. Little did I know the personal journey I would encounter through the years, I was a pretty carnal Christian. Hanging onto the dead man-made rules of religion, judging everything, hating everything, smiling and pretending that everything was fine and that I knew it all. Such utter, useless crap, taken me years to get past a lot of it with God and I’ve discovered a lot about Him, myself and people. I don’t know it all, and I’m certainly not perfect (not even remotely close) but I believe I’m way better off than I was then when He first told me.

I’m not concerned with what people think, but when this topic came up I felt like expressing my views, I’m happy I did, I enjoy getting into conversations.

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I hope that someday you’ll find what your looking for.

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More sleep is about the only thing I am currently looking for. Thanks for your thoughts.

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your lack of love, joy, peace, encouragement, gentleness, kindness, your lack of faith in what God could do with this.

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*Yawn* I always enjoy how whenever I say anything that people do not like, it comes down to my 'lack of love' Can I honestly say, how pathetic. I mean that sincerely, it is pathetic.

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It reminds me of when a lot of Christians were against anything new, the radio, tv, the internet, music, now games. I can see it all over your post, why so glum chum?

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I said already that no media is exempt from being used, however, 'lack of faith', like 'lack of love', is to me the refuge of the scoundrel. It's a nice religious thing to say that compartmentalises me and stops you from having to think about any thing I say. I'm not glum, just incredulous. The Bible says to 'redeem the time', and my point is that writing Christian games is never a good way to 'redeem' your time for the Gospels sake. I don't see any evidence that it is, and I've listed several reasons why I think it is unlikely to be. You've not responded to them in any meaningful way beyond using religious terms to belittle me.

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I think it’s humorous that you “know” that it’s not my calling,

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I believe that there is no such thing as a calling to write video games, and I have explained why. I believe that people claiming that Satan puts bugs in their code is an example of people reading comic books, and a good example of the sort of comfortable subculture I see here. 'We're on the front lines, coding for Jesus'. Puh-leaz.

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that you “know” that all Christian games will fail, never sell in mainstream stores

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I'm happy to be proved wrong. I'm suggesting that the odds are against it, and that those who write them simply follow their own desires, not some higher calling. If God uses it, so much the better, but I don't think God is obliged to use your code any more than the macrame the old lady in the front row at church does in her spare time, and in both cases the most likely use is to help meet a person with similar interests.

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that they won’t be used as steps in order to further someone to starting a relationship with him

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I do not believe for a moment that a non-Christian will buy a Christian game knowingly, the fact that the buy it means it is a symptom and not a cause ( i.e. they are already thinking that way )

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also that you “know” so much about me.

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This last one is hilarious, seeing as you and others here often claim to know so much about me, but do not. For example below you seem to have concluded something totally false about what it is that I am advocating, indeed you seem to think I've said the polar opposite to what I have tried to say.

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I work for a school board, with employees who have a anti-Christian view, and schools with neutral laws that try to balance everything out and please everyone. So I love people for who they are, have conversations with them, cheer them up and they open up to me slowly, then I have different chances to share with them now and then.

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In that case you're doing what I advocate. Good for you. Sincerely. This is what I am trying to talk about, a Christian should be interacting with people, getting to know them, not just considering them a target for a Bible bash.

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The way your suggesting is that I should march into my work place with my Bible and start Bible-thumping them till they croak or convert. Not gonna happen.

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Good, coz I never said any such thing. I said we need to be examples, not preaching machines. It's easy to thump the Bible at people, but it is only good for self righteousness.

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I started to talk to God, we started to get into a conversation and He told me that I should create Christian games

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If you believe that, then good for you. My father has been told by God to buy a helicopter, so he can fly from church to church and tell them what they are doing wrong. God has also told him all sorts of similar things, none of which have come to fruition. I see no evidence in the Bible of God acting in this way, so until I see it in the Bible I'm afraid I will remain skeptical.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

I wonder if the original poster feels brave enough to wade into all this and tell us *his* thoughts......

I see Big Idea as a good example. Related to what we do, but not games in itself, but like games, Veggietales tells a story. Just like RPGs do.

Games in the Christian community do a few things:

1. They give an alternative to the secular. i.e. My good friend, who now helps me in gaming, bought a Jars of Clay CD. It changed his life. He realized that he had to do something after listening to the CD and sought a Church. Realize, that I had given up all hope of him accepting Christ, but with this music as his only witness tool, it motivated him to ask God to save him. Can a Christian game do that? The right game in the right hands with the right story COULD. If Jars of Clay can do it, and if Big Idea can play a part in making my son ask the right questions, then the answer is yes.

2. Christian games are also reminders of those of us already in the faith. I bought Catechumen and played it thru. By the end of the game and many retries, (that game is so hard it's frustrating) I found that I had memorized a few of the verses they give during the game. I had also found myself refering to those verses when times are hard in my life (i.e. right now. I will be laid off on the 31st of December in 2 days.) Those verses echo in my head as I try to reassure myself and prepare myself for the change.

I personally have seen a positive effect of Christian games in my life.
Christian games can be a great witnessing tool, just like music, just like books, just like cartoons. If you love making games, love being a Christian, why not make Christian games? Pray about it. Christian Games CAN plant a great seed. All things are possible with God. If He can make a donkey talk to a person to make him listen, then He can affect someone's life with a game. Sometimes it's just seeing His Word that can do the trick.

God Bless

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Much greatness is achieved thru faith and perseverance.

[This message has been edited by BluePaladin (edited December 28, 2002).]

so one soul is worth it all.

-Tim

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Called by God. The passioned plea of a father. The journey awaits at Jarod's Journey.

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Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I play Quake 3.

What part of that do some people not understand?

He who dies with the most frags wins,
but he who dies with Jesus in his heart conquers.

The simple fact is, the game industry is catching up, and some people don't much such distinctions -- in Europe, I understand that all of the music is arranged alphabetically, and so you might find Skillet and Slayer in the same section -- the "S" section.

Big Idea is a great example of someone doing what they're doing with Kingdom excellence -- and people who aren't Christians are watching them and their videos. Why else would they be sold in K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Target, etc? It's not a big marketing conglomerate -- it's because they're high quality, entertaining, and have a message that people want to teach their kids.

Just my $0.02

-Ascent

There is alot of workable material, and I think if done properly (stressing properly), things can be done well.

Let's look at magic for example. Magic is considered evil by the Bible. Saul used a medium to communicate with Samuel's spirit. The Bible never says magic isn't real. It says that all who practice it and do not repent is condemned. Clarifying that there is no such thing as a "good" medium.

There CAN be evil in your game. The player just has to have the ability to overcome it. It's so amazing to me how we are so hard on ourselves, but allow much more violent games in our homes if they have a "secular" classification.

If you look back in history, Christians wouldn't accept any music that wasn't a hymn. Well, we(Christians) wised up and expanded our music. More Churches have drums now, heck even those "evil" electric guitars. Christian video games will follow the same suit at some point. It's up to us to help drive that forward. Me personally, I would like it to happen soon. My sons will be better off for it. The thing for me is for us to build up alternatives to make Christianity more attractive to those on the outside, in AS MANY ASPECTS AS POSSIBLE. We are in the business of saving lives. The moment we begin to treat it like one, the better off we will be.

Imagine if we had jobs with companies that were Christian based? How would that affect your walk? Emails with verses attached to them, people taking breaks to pray. Prayer lists for those around you? I can't believe that someone would say that we shouldn't be paid to do Christian things. You have to make money to give it. There's so much that can be done if a purely Christian business network is developed and flourishing. We hurt ourselves with our thinking sometimes. A network of Christians supporting Christians would change this country. In a heartbeat! We are kept at bay by our denominations and our peculiars. "It's not just perfect, so don't do it." "We can't make Christian games with violence, that would be bad." "No type of media can change a person's life. Why do it?" "We can't PAY for Christian merchandise! God will send manna to feed them. We shouldn't reward them for their efforts."

We hurt ourselves. This is OUR TIME on this Earth. It is up to us to be a light. It's up to us to change it. I for one am going to give it a shot and pray for God's guidance. You may not believe in my game, but believe in my cause. My purpose is to change lives thru Christian gaming. Whether you think it's viable or not. Support your Christian causes with your finances and build Christian businesses and watch what happens.

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Much greatness is achieved thru faith and perseverance.

[This message has been edited by BluePaladin (edited December 29, 2002).]

Many of us here are already trying to do that.
I asked you if you'd like to help our group, but you said you weren't skilled enough, but realize that many of use arn't professionals.

I, myself an an 18 year old laymen, i'm not even a compitent amatuer and now I am project leader of a development team.
What did I do to merit this? Nothing! I was the least of all the choices and that is the precise reason why I am leader of a dev team.

God will use you if you have a heart for Him and a heart for this mission field. Those without this passion will do nothing regardless of their skill and expertise.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

This is not my first attempt at getting it right. My eyes got too big when I started and I tried a project I wasn't ready for. I had a VB game engine I was using called TrueVision and was trying to make a MMORPG with it. That's a little much for a newbie. I spent about a year and made some good ground with it but realized that VB's speed was my limitation and started back into C++. I don't expect to be a professional to be able to help you out, but I do want to be able to write a few lines of script . I'm excited about the future of Christian gaming, and my future in it. Torque recommends at least 2 months with their scripting engine to be able to write games with it. I'm making sure I put in the time. With about 2 months of demos, I should be ready to get some stuff started. I'm trying to do it right, not crash and burn myself. I've been there. It stinks feeling defeated. I just can't do that again. If you are willing to help answer some questions when I get to them, that will speed the process some .

BluePaladin

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Much greatness is achieved thru faith and perseverance.

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Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I play Quake 3.

What part of that do some people not understand?

He who dies with the most frags wins,
but he who dies with Jesus in his heart conquers.

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Much greatness is achieved thru faith and perseverance.

Hehehe...I can just see us using the Torque engine to make Tribes 3...maybe one without so many bugs ?

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Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I play Quake 3.

What part of that do some people not understand?

He who dies with the most frags wins,
but he who dies with Jesus in his heart conquers.

That said, I would encourage anyone who really has heard from God (yes, God does speak to people, through ideas, inspiration, etc.) to put everything in them to the task of writing Christian games. God can and will use them.

It's not a matter of attempting to convert those who aren't interested in God. They have to come to a point in there lives where they realize they're lacking. That's the point when they turn to things like Christian music, Christian television, and yes, even Christian games for answers. If no one is providing those answers, guess where they turn? Sex, drugs, and alcohol. The very things promoted by secular media.

I just think it's important for people to know their calling. Regardless of how noble your cause, if it's not God's will, there will be no favor, and there will be no fruit.

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

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:-)Boss Benz:-)

I personally find Counterstrike less offensive than games that are exactly the same, but replace the gun with a 'sword of salvation' to give it all a religious veneer. And I certainly think that a lot of people seem to get uptight over irrelevant things, when there are more important things to be talking about, and to be known for.

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:-)Boss Benz:-)

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I think if it has destruction (brings to mind that the DEVIL comes to steal, KILL, and DESTROY) in it I don't like it. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm NOT perfect. However if Jesus wouldn't play it, should you?

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I find it interesting that people presume what Jesus would do based on their own prejudices. I don't see Jesus being that uptight about things that are so irrelevant. Are you then totally opposed to war ? I mean, if Saddam were actually pointing nukes at America, would the Christian thing to do be to die ? The plot in most of these games has you killing beings that are evil and want to hurt you, so if that's not acceptable in a game, why would it be in real life ?

And as I think we agree on Jesus' view on greed and selfishness, there are many board games which you should condemn as equally as any video game.

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About the business of "wielding a sword of salvation": If it's destruction and killing, it's destruction and killing. No matter what you paint it to be. I re-iterate: If it looks, acts, or even is Evil, Hands off.:-)

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The big trouble I think a lot of Christendom has is that it's scared of things that don't matter, and yet fails totally to preach the Gospel, or stand for the fundamental things that do. I do not know if you fall into the latter category, and I am not trying to imply that this is the case. But I certainly think you're getting uptight over nothing, and to make that stand and not extend it to Monopoly, Ludo, dodge ball and chasey is just hypocritical.

Anyways, how do they fight in the spiritual realms?

I don't beleive in the killing of humans in games, but demons etc is fine imo.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

Killum all Killum all
The long short and the tall
There be no solucian
This side of the ocian

Hay what da ya say
Killum all

God sent his people out to war often. The qustion isnt wether or not killing is Godly. The qustion is when will God tell us to go out and kill again? I remmember three people in the new testiment dieing because God had them put to death. There was the guy who wasnt listoning to the sermen in that one city. He fell to his death (I think he fell asleep before that). Then the cupul that withheld 10% of their income from God. Wasnt it Peter that told them to die?

Anyways im not saying for you to quickly get out your mushedy, find those who are sleeping in church and or not giving 10% in full, and then cutting off there heads/ears. I am simply stating that God will do what He deams fit. If he wants us to go to war with Iraq fine. We are to uphold what our leaders want unless it be aginst the will of God. God wants us to protect those who need it. So I see no prob with going over there and shooting Sadam in the head.

While on that subject some people were complaining before about the USA being evil. Every contry we have beaten in a war we have helped to rebuild. I dont know any other contry that does that. They come in and kill, steal, distroy and sometimes all of that at one time. I would call that evil.

Blah I could fuss on and on at people and in the end its up to you what is right or wrong in your eyes. I would just try and make sure it alines with what God says. Then if you want to know what God says your dumb butt shouldnt be in here, just asking people you dont know if whatever is on your mind is right or wrong. You should be in your Bible and asking your Biblical leaders. When asking your leaders you should ask for Biblical proff of what they think.

~Angel~

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:-)Boss Benz:-)

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Now, D-SPIL. Yes, Peter did try and kill a Roman. But wasn't that the very night when ALL the discpiles (including and especially peter) fell spiritually? And didn't Jesus, the flawless One, scold him for trying to kill the Roman. And to top it all off Jesus up and healed him!!! Well, I wouldn't take Bible characters flaws and blemishes as license to do what they do. If you do that it's sin, wrong, and just plain bad theology!

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So anyways, when non-christian gamers turn to God there to give up all there games? And for what... a game where you answer bibles questions... hmmm great!! I think christian games can contain violence, just not against humans as i said before.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Graceworks Interactive

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Uh huh. You know, Christian, what I base my, quote "prejudices" on? The BIBLE!!!!! If it's in God's word, it's in GODS WORD!!!!!!! And yes, I know, the Bible doesn't say "don't play evil video/computer/whatever games". It just plain speaks out against evil in general!!!!!

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Um.. yes. So are you going to answer what I said ? How can you say video games are evil ? Where's the Bible backing for that ?

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And about the matter being irrelavant: What you put in is eventually going to come out!!!!!

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That's true to a point. I obviously don't condone watching pr0n, or dabbling in the occult ( although I don't believe it has power of itself ). But that's a lot different to playing a game. I personally think the reason some folks presume that playing a video game turns you into a violent killer is that you're hoping to convince yourself that playing a game can make someone into a Christian.

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Did God say: "You only have to be righteous/sinless/whatever when you aren't playing. If it's make belief it's OK"??????? I ask you?

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Did Jesus say something about straining at gnats and swallowing camels ?

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And, Angel, I totally agree about doing what GOD tells us to. God implanted within EVERYONE a conscience. For some it has been dulled to a point where doing things that are wrong doesn't seem wrong. Even such atrocious characters as Hitler or, yes, even Saddam Hussein has (or at some point had) a conscience! However: when you continually do bad things then they don't seem as bad. The more you do them, the less bad they seem!

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This is true, the conscience does get seared. But if you're right, why isn't Australia full of gun violence ? We have lots of kids who play Doom.....

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And about this boardgame business:
Hey, if it's wrong it's wrong. I think it's a choice between everyone and God. If God tells you not to play Monopoly, don't play it.

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How would you presume that God would tell you that, and on what basis ?

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And, just think. Imagine. Jesus sitting there playing his little XBOX or Computer or something. If that ain't hard enough to imagine here's more: He's playing some gory game wherein He's destroying people/aliens/whatever.

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Personally I think He'd give it a shot, and seek to talk about something more important than video games. But then, I give Him a lot of credit.

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Now, D-SPIL. Yes, Peter did try and kill a Roman. But wasn't that the very night when ALL the discpiles (including and especially peter) fell spiritually? And didn't Jesus, the flawless One, scold him for trying to kill the Roman. And to top it all off Jesus up and healed him!!! Well, I wouldn't take Bible characters flaws and blemishes as license to do what they do. If you do that it's sin, wrong, and just plain bad theology!

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I have to agree here - Peter and the ear was a bad example, but Israel killing nations in the OT is probably one more worthy of your consideration.

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Christian, a word about Saddam pointing Nukes at the US: What makes you think he isn't?

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Because he's been watched too closely. He is very unlikely to have anything that could reach that far.

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And do you not think that God could handle the situation? I can't exactly see God up in heaven wringing his hands at the situation in Iraq completely helpless as to what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Of course not. That was not my point, you've neatly ignored what I said. Are you actually against war with Iraq on the basis that God will kill Saddam if He wants to, but you mustn't go to war to defend your family ?

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Christian, a word about Saddam pointing Nukes at the US: What makes you think he isn't?

Because he's been watched too closely. He is very unlikely to have anything that could reach that far.

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Meanwhile, I seem to remember the news media here in the U.S. telling us that he's had to dismantle some missles that went a little further than was agreed to by the U.N.

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Meanwhile, I seem to remember the news media here in the U.S. telling us that he's had to dismantle some missles that went a little further than was agreed to by the U.N.

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A little further meaning they could arguably reach Israel. The UN knew about the missiles, and knew the range AFAIK, they just had not bothered because it was a minor infringement and the UN is gutless.

Christian:
In answer to your question the Bible backing is in the entire Bible, which may sound redundant, but you asked the question. The Bible says not to do evil. Even in play. How do you tell what "evil" is? God will tell you. Despite what people say God still does talk to you. In very few cases he audibly speaks however I don't think the creator of Absolutely EVERYTHING is going to have trouble conveying a message. Especially when He created the languages in the first place! And you cannot deny above all things that the Bible describes THE DEVIL as the one who comes to STEAL KILL AND DESTROY!!!!!!!!

As for this business of playing a violent game turning you into a violent person (or whatever):
Yes, it may not (noticeably) affect your lifestyle, but it is still going through your mind! If you see someone (a 3d graphic of someone, or real) being torn apart by bullets or whatever how long is the image going to stay with you????? Five minutes? You can say so, but I have a hard time believing it!!!! And do you think that God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit (they're all the same) are going to destroy what He/They created? OF Course not! The Bible (I do believe in the same verse) that Jesus came for the oppisite of what the devil came for! In other words:
StealKillDestroy = Devil
StealKillDestroy != Jesus!

About this business of "Straining At Gnats and Swallowing Camels":
Elaborate willya? If you are referring to what you think to be a Bible reference then No I don't think Jesus said that. If your being sarcastic then (in the words of a famous Canadian Politician) No Comment!

About the whole "why isn't Australia filled with.....":
I really can't believe that you don't (or at least didn't) get even the very slightest feeling of discomfort or guilt or you didn't like it or whatever else about playing (by my terminology) Evil game. About your question in the matter however I do believe that I have explained above what I think on that.

About the "How would you presume that God would tell you that, and on what basis ?" Business:
If God (which God did not. Hmmm maybe I should ask Him about it) told me not to play Monopoly is it my place to say "HEY! There's nothing wrong with that!"? I don't think so!

quote:
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And, just think. Imagine. Jesus sitting there playing his little XBOX or Computer or something. If that ain't hard enough to imagine here's more: He's playing some gory game wherein He's destroying people/aliens/whatever.
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Personally I think He'd give it a shot, and seek to talk about something more important than video games. But then, I give Him a lot of credit.
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I must differ on this point. I do not think that Jesus would play a game like Doom or Quake. But heck! As has been said in the Bible "Your ways are higher than my ways" (to God that is).

About the wars in the OT business:
Yes God did say to wipe out nations at a time. An important point however is that that was BEFORE Christ came to earth and spoke about Loving your neighbor as yourself etc. Basically the nations killed by the Israelites (God's chosen people) were doomed to death because of their abhorrable practises of Idol-worship and (ironically enough) EVIL!!!!!!!

About this business of whether to "stand and die":
I think (and Angel had this point too) that if God sends me, Praise the Lord and pass the ammuntion.

In any case I say that salvation is not based on works but on believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also say: Christian, D-SIPL, Angel, and everyone else: GOD BLESS YOU!!!

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:-)Boss Benz:-)

quote:

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I really can't believe that you don't (or at least didn't) get even the very slightest feeling of discomfort or guilt or you didn't like it or whatever else about playing (by my terminology) Evil game. About your question in the matter however I do believe that I have explained above what I think on that.

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I am suddenly convicted of the scripture which says not to cause a weak brother to stumble. If you're convinced that video games are a problem, then I guess they are for you. I assure you I've been speaking largely hypothetically, I do not play games. I pray that you grow in the Lord.

I disagree that Jesus would *never* play though. He lived for 33 1/2 years, I see no evidence to support the idea that He never once did something recreational. I see much to support the idea that He sought to meet people where they were at. I am certain that if He played counter strike with a group of young lads, it would be with a view to meet them, and seek a chance to speak to them of His message ( which in my opinion is about 50 million times more useful than writing games with a 'christian' message and expecting them to convert people for you ).

quote:

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I see no evidence to support the idea that He never once did something recreational.

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Indeed. In fact, he made water into wine at a wedding party . Approx. 150 gallons of it! (Luke 2:1-11)

We are called to be the Salt and Light of the World.

Let's do that to the Gaming Industry!!!

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

Finally:
I do believe in God speaking to someone. I'm not saying that you would hear thunder and the walls would shake and a booming voice would call out and comission you to create Christian games. I think that God can speak by putting a thought in your mind or having you read a scripture verse that would tell you something. I have heard of only one case where God spoke audibly to a person and that was to tell a missionary (fifty years ago or so) to run because his natives were about to kill him. Besides bible times and all that.
Anyhow.
GodBless You all!

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:-)Boss Benz:-)

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

quote:

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I think the purpose behind Christian Games is not to ease the conciences of the Christians playing them, but to help non-Christians into God.

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I'm sure that is the intent, I'm yet to believe it works, and suspect that more could be done by developers getting involved in the secular scene and being a testimony to people.

Since MeanManinOz is still an active member on this board, this will be my last post.

I want to make games with a Christian theme. Not necessarily Christian games though I'd love to make a RTS of angels vs demons, setting up fortresses and training men sorta C&C style.

Any Christian playing my games will easily notice the Christian elements in them. Some will be more noticeable than others.

I think for me it'll be more of a career than a calling. I will have stuff in ALL my games about God.

I'm a student at the mo doing an HND in Software Engineering.

I know a bit of HTML and BASIC.
but VB and Java are my best (only cause its wot Im doing now)

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The whole violence in Christian Games thing was also interesting, i think there may always be a divide in the Christian Game Developers community on this? or maybe not?

What do you guys think about violence in Christian Games? sorry this may have been discussed before.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

There is more to this, but I will pause for comments. This is a good discussion to have, even more than once

Matt

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

I agree that there needs to be some sort of limit to the violence. While I'm not against violence it needs to be in context. Blowing the crap out of some demons doesn't bug me. Running round a city with a missile launcher slaughtering everyone in sight ala GTA3 does bug me big time.

I don't think I'd be against games fighting against humans who are servants of demons either (of course within the storyline they have to get what they deserve... and not from the good guys if u catch my drift )

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The way the current games industry, and in fact the whole of society, is moving is more violent, more sex-filled, and more (IMHO) anti-moral. Therefore, any decent or wholesome, or even neutral games will help to level the ballance away from what (as Christians) we should not want games to be like.

For instance, say we are talking about 3d FPS games. A Doom type game where you are killing monsters and "evil things" and whatnot is more neutral (IMO) than a 3d FPS in which you were in a school mowing down kids (and I hope and pray that games like _that_ never become popular!).

So if/when I ever manage to get some games written, they will not especially be "Christian", but I don't want them to contain things which (to me) are _against_ christian morals (like, say, an adventure game in which you had to commit adultury in order to complete, for example. That would be (IMCO (C=confused)) wrong.)

Then again, games which promote christian morals... thats good too. The trouble is that doing so in a way which is "fun" in a secular (ie, non-religious) way can be kind of tricky. And most people don't want religious games.

God has given some people gifts in computer-game writing (not me that I know of!). Talents and skills which, presumably, have purpose in His Kingdom. And I'm sure that God uses all sorts of methods of reaching people.

The whole "its just a game" argument... I don't know. I personally don't feel comfortable in games killing. Either humans, or monsters. Robots, ok, providing they aren't humanoid. And even then, Killing for the sake of Killing makes me feel kind of ill. I dunno. Perhaps I'm just oversensative (or perhaps I'm insane).

Then again, I ain't gonna try and stop anyone else. Nor do I want to get into another debate (which I will lose). Besides which I will probably forget that I even posted here for another month or so. (bah. slow brain me.)

Mad "weird 'ol vegetarian linux-using hyper-sensative leftist tree-hugging bookworm non-conformist introvert cat-loving home-educated VI-coding sometimes-christian uncool nerdy know-it-all boring out-of-touch communist!" Prof

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7 days without prayer makes one weak.

What makes a Christian game different than any other game?

This is an important point. If a Christian game is like any other game of its genre but is made by a professing Christian, it is in reality not any different, is it?
If, on the other hand, the game presents some *clear* and *specific* Christian principles, then it is different, isn't it?

We are now getting into the real challenges of what it means to make a Christian game. Here are some elements to discuss:
1) What principles would be clearly specific of Christianity that would mark a game as uniquely Christian?
2) How can a Christian develop a game that presents the Christian life from the non-Christian life and distinguish the benefits of the former over the latter?
3) Can (1) and (2) be done without affecting the quality and objective of the game, to make it appealing to Christians and non-Christians alike?

Some other issues to consider from a business perspective:
1) Should a Christian game company think in terms of financial profit, or should the goal be spiritual gain for the sake of the Kingdom?
2) Should a Christian game company integrate commonly held business strategies (in terms of making a game) with scriptural business principles in order to gain a share of the market?
3) Should a Christian game company follow in the footsteps of popular secular culture in the design and development of a game?

Really, the two sets of questions go hand-in-hand. They reveal character and motive. The business of making games is far from simple, and I am not trying to mock anyone involved in the business, especially those here who are Christian developers. But, these are important elements to consider when thinking about going into this type of business, and to remember for those already involved in it.

Some comments on the issue of violence: Yes, the Bible is full of violent conflicts. There are several other situations in the Bible as well that one could justify with the logic "It's in the Bible!" But we need to use discretion. The ability to do something because it is in the Bible is not an acceptable reason and should not be a justification. The Bible also talks of powerful leaders who were murdered by individuals who had relationships with God to some degree. But that does not mean the murder of a political leader is acceptable. There are many other examples that can apply here. I am not against violence, but it is not my first course of action either. As it says in Ecclesiastes, there is a time for everything and everything has a purpose. We must be careful what we preach and teach - we do so without realizing it - because we are the messengers of God.

quote:

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Yes, the Bible is full of violent conflicts. There are several other situations in the Bible as well that one could justify with the logic "It's in the Bible!" But we need to use discretion. The ability to do something because it is in the Bible is not an acceptable reason and should not be a justification.

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Adam and Eve walked around naked at first; does that mean we should have nudity in our games (please don't jump on me, that's obviously taken out of context, an extreme example, pretty absurd, and easy to discount).

Why is violence a "more acceptable" thing than sex or cursing? I don't have an answer for this, but I think this way and tend to get the same vibe from Christians in general. That doesn't make it right, though.

I'm not going to deny that violence is realistic. I won't deny that it's in the Bible. I won't even deny that maybe it does have its place somewhere. But why do we *enjoy* it? Why do we partake of it for *entertainment*, for *pleasure*? Is such a thing spiritually sanctioned, or is it a fleshly desire?

I don't have answers; I have my own opinions, but that doesn't mean I'm right. It is, however, good to talk things out amongst ourselves (and if we cannot agree, at least continue loving each other and respecting those with differing opinions, as we are still all one body).

Dude---when they walked around naked it was not considered controversial or sexual-------just like animals don't freak when they walk around naked----------I guess that one thing that irritates me is that most christian materials out there are suited for everyone ie from 5 year olds to 90 year olds-----but that isn't how the world works----do kids at 5 watch violent anime's like Trigun? NO they watch non violent ones like Poke'mon----With tv and movies it is so clear---everyone knows that, if it has violence, it is meant for older crowds probably-----why is it so muddy with games???/ our culture (both christian and USA in general) is so into this attitude that everything has to be 'kid friendly' and that everyone has to have the same taste----sometimes it gets repetitive------senseless violence imo is just sloppy story creation---although if you use violence with a message it can become effective and positive story telling and outreaching-----------------many people cry over the evils of Grand Theft Auto and then they kick back and watch an episode of the Sopranos---------both are fantasy yet, because Film is a more respected medium, people are willing to accept that is fantasy and that games are allegedly something different

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

[edit: fixed spelling error and clarified a point]

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited January 21, 2004).]

quote:

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With tv and movies it is so clear---everyone knows that, if it has violence, it is meant for older crowds probably

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My challenge/question to you is this: why do we have this cultural "rule?" Does this apply to us as Christians, or are we held to an even higher standard in that we should not indulge in watching/playing/etc. violence as enjoyment, pleasure, and entertainment regardless of age? Do cultural age restrictions define our morality as Christians, or does God? Is sin (and is violence sin?) any less potent or wrong when we're adults as it is when we're children? To be clear, I'm in no way suggesting we should remove laws protecting kids or add laws restricting adults...I'm just trying to see if we need to go above and beyond the world's laws to maintain purity.

I definitely agree with you in that senseless violence indicates sloppy story and is highly unnecessary (I think we can all agree that temperance is a suitable Christian quality). Again, though, are we called to a higher standard? Obviously, violence is a way of life. But because that is so, does it make it right for us to willingly welcome it into our lives as *entertainment*?

I don't think we ever achieved purity in the first place---Salvation is a gift not something earned by us--------it isn't that for older ppl it is ok to be violent, but that older ppl can recognize that it is a fantasy------the only time violence becomes a problem is when someone is unable to recognize the line between fantasy and reality (which is why I am against porn, because I believe porn is directed to a demographic known to have trouble distuingishing fantasy and reality)------------I think many people want to have everything sugar coated---and for kids we need to ------many kids cannot distinguish fantasy and reality that well -------but most adults can-------I mean so many christian people love the works of Shakespeare as well----------and yet his plays have violence---I am just trying to say that violence can be used as a positive part of an overall story-----violence in of its own is not strong enough of an elemnt to make a complete game (I know Rockstar execs would fight me on that one heeh)----but it can have its own part in the story---that is why I said the Bible is violent---not senselessly violent, but everything that is violent in the Bible has a hidden higher purpose-----violence that is used to project an overall positive message about God coming out on top in the end---------games can be used in the same manner, but violent games should be marketed towards adults....and imo that means a lot of people, both in the USA and christian subculture, should start understanding that games aren't always meant for kids only----and I think a lot of ppl are starting to realize that-------------------that fact just needs more mainstream recognition

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

quote:

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Originally posted by nfektious:
Looney Toons ).]

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I actually use Looney Toons alot in violence discussions----at least 2 generations have now grown up with Looney Toons-----and yet violence is only recently being considered a social problem---------I believe that is because parents used to spend more time teaching fantasy vs reality------which imo is the solution to this whole thread------fantasy vs reality----------------my arguement of children and adults is adults have the ability to discern much stronger than kids can----I did not say anything about a Godly lifestyle being for the weak so I guess I don't completely understand the Stalin reference there

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

But, BKewl does provoke some interesting thoughts. Is it possible that 1 Corinthians 13:11 applies here?
If Zookey is right about child-oriented games, then should there even be adult-focused games by that same token?
Is this even an issue for Christians to be involved in outside of parenting?

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited January 21, 2004).]

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Originally posted by nfektious:
Well stated Zook. I agree with those thoughts.

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Thanks hehe-----that is what I personally believe---and I also believe shows like Power Rangers (while corney) are a great way to teach kids that-----ask them "what is real and what is not" and "what do they do that God would appreciate you doing in real life and what do they do that God would not like"

My mom did that---and I am able to watch violent shows and stuff without being spiritually harmed, because I know it is fantasy, and in reality I still keep God's word and stand up for him, because fantasy can be fun but it can never be more than that hehe

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

If God leads you to make totally non-violent games to put across the point that killing is wrong - do it. Despite the fact that ppl will whinge at having no violence.

Personal Conviction plays a part too. If you are troubled by violent games - don't make them!

the game I'm designing - Legacy of Numach will have violence in it. People will get killed. But it's to show a greater thing. Hate cannot beat hate. Evil cannot beat evil. Once Numach realises that, he repents of it. Then he has the power to beat the evil. Violencei n games needs to be in context. If it's there just for the hell of it its probably wrong. If the game is about a war - Command and Conquer, Medal of Honour etc. Then its a bit different. How different I dunno. I'm mostly guessing here.

quote:

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Originally posted by skynes:
I think that no matter what motives you have, no matter the content of your games, no matter the genre, age category or whatever. Someone is going to dislike you for it. So I think it's best to just follow the Spirit's leading and forget what other ppl say and think about it.

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Totally agree

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

But, this comment in particular concerns me: "If you are troubled by violent games - don't make them!"
This is the common argument - from all sides - about any given social problem. One person, or company, not making [in this case, a violent video game] is not going to keep [violent video game]s from being made, nor is it going to keep [violent video games] away from many people (not just children) who cannot comprehend the distinction between reality and fantasy.

The recent situation in Florida is a good example of legal measures being enforced to maintain some degree of control as to whom can acquire such games. There have been a few other legal battles in the last year or so that have taken a different approach at the same objective. I believe two in particular were overturned by the courts. It will be curious to see how this Florida case works out.

I have seen the ESRB change their ratings system in the last few years to cover more specific content. I think it is great that the industry is policing itself to that degree, but the ESRB is not doing what it is doing for the sake of the consumers - it is all for the developers. In my opinion, this is backward thinking. The new descriptors that the ESRB developed are great, but they did nothing to change the actual ratings. And, in my opinion, the ESRB has done little to help enforce their own system. The only time the ESRB makes a legal presence is when the industry itself is somehow threatened. I honestly see the ESRB as a joke.

I agree that not all of the people are going to be pleased all of the time. But I think it is wrong to forget what people say and think about. We, as Christians, have a degree of accountability to maintain. Shouldn't that accountability extend into the area of game development?
I think there is a better way to do things than just go off and do what we believe is our calling or ministry. That is good to do, but it needs to be interspersed with fellowship and prayer among our fellow Christians, with allowance for the Holy Spirit to guide and direct each step. Those of us involved in the Christian game development process must see it as an extension of the Christian life we each live, and that it must be treated just like time for prayer, devotions, attending church, etc. All that we do falls under the hand of God.

Forgive me for preaching or sounding like I'm condemning anyone. I'm just trying to communicate a point that I've seen missing the discussion to some degree.

God bless,
Matt

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

quote:

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Originally posted by zookey:
I don't think we ever achieved purity in the first place---Salvation is a gift not something earned by us

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Well, aren't we pure in God's eyes through Christ's sacrifice? And once we're saved, doesn't God shape us to be like Him? Therefore I think here on earth, you're right, we won't ever achieve complete purity; however, we will approach it as God changes us (kind of like a limit in Calculus ).

1 Corinthians 15:48,49
As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

quote:

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--------it isn't that for older ppl it is ok to be violent, but that older ppl can recognize that it is a fantasy------the only time violence becomes a problem is when someone is unable to recognize the line between fantasy and reality

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I'm not sure if this is the whole problem. When I was in high school and I heard a ton of cussing all day, it seeped into my head and though I wouldn't speak it out loud, there would be curse words in my head. I don't think that has to do with me being able to discern fantasy from reality.

If then, it's not only an inability to distinguish fantasy, but also amount of exposure that effects us, then seeing lots of violence would mess up our heads. Same with with sexuality in movies; I don't know about you, but I run from it like crazy because, though I know that God demands purity in a relationship (and in marriage), seeing that kind of stuff distorts my mind and expectations. Okay, with that last example I can see where you would say it's a problem distinguishing fantasy, but though I know movies are fantasy, it doesn't mean it won't affect me.

Again, I don't have answers, I just know what's happened to me and I'm trying to reconcile it with what you said, zookey.

Please guide those you have called to inject Christ into software projects. We earnestly pray they are making the additions that you desire and leaving out what you do not.

For the world, we ask that you bless them through their experience with Your software. Open their hearts to Jesus! Let them see His love and sacrifice.

We pray that the upcoming Passions of Christ movie is from you Lord & that it touches many!

Father, please be blessing the people called to do game development that are Christians. For the organization of the conference and association, be mightily present.

Lord, if one soul is touched, was it worth it?

In Jesus' name,
Amen

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Called by God. The passioned plea of a father. The journey awaits at Jarod's Journey.

quote:

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...if one soul is touched, was it worth it?

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This is the most amazing aspect of God's love and the relationship He wants with us. From the life of Noah, and even the life of Lot, we do know that God is involved where ever even one person is willing to come to a relationship with Him.
It wasn't just about keeping the seed of Adam pure; it was about showing us how great a God He is

Excellent prayer Tim, and Amen to it!

God bless,
Matt

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

This is a good question.
I have also enjoyed playing non Christian game called Asheron's Call if there was a Christain game that i could play with a Christain story line i would much reather play it. I just whish there was another option that i could play. I have always liked playing RPG but you have to admit that most of the story lines are not what a Christian should be focusing on. So this is way i would like to see more Christian games being made. so i don't get bom barded with all the negative storey lines.

Thanks
Lynk

As far as I go, games are a way to tell a story. In the case of a Christian game, the story will usually have strong Christian themes and morals. The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings are popular stories by famous Christian authors.

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There are only 10 types of people - those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

I'd like to play them, but it's action games that get my juices going, and I'm yet to see action done with a good Christian theme well enough for me to want to play it, maybe it's just the genre.

One that was raised that I've been really debating is the context of the game itself. As was noted, games seem to either have a secular or a Christian appeal.

Is it possible to merge the two together?

I realize that this may seem like an odd question but I've really been mulling over it. We, as Christians, are "in" the world but not "of" it. Can this dichotomy be adequately simulated in an RPG without leaning too far in either direction?

It seems to me that Christian RPG's that are directed toward a more secular audience would need to be more gritty because that's what's liked. However, carefully blending a Christian theme into the story would then be very difficult.

How does one score "points" when both systems are incorporated into one?

Perhaps a Christian game could be developed where some "meter" is used to guage how close their character is to God. By completing the RPG in a Christian manner, the character gains certain "Biblical" benefits. However, when the character falls from God, they are excluded from his grace and therefore forced to employ more secular means of "survival" until they return to him (they could be immediately forgiven but their "conscience" is striken for a while, or something like that).

One concern that I have with this idea is that the player's may be inadvertedly introduced to secular concepts which run contrary to our Lord's thinking. I'm currently developing a FRPG called Ex Nihilo d20 and due to these very reasons I've placed a 17+ rating on it.

If the game can be done in a fun and flexible way which allows for the Holy Spirit to be at work in the player, it seems possible to me that a seed of faith could be introduced. In addition to this, a well developed Biblical background may actually work to lead someone to ask questions about the Christian faith.

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains, eh?

Anyway, just some thoughts on the matter.

Blessings,
Dale

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Do not forget to entertain strangers,
for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.

Hebrews 13:2 (NIV)

I think it is important to remember the issue of maturity - both secular and spiritual. Some concepts cannot be fully grasped by the "immature".

-Matt

1) Simply provide an alternative by creating a secular game without all of the objectionable content. In other words, make clean games.

2) Build your game to teach, encourage, or grow the church. Once a person is saved, the journey has only begun. Games, just as music or books, can be useful in teaching helpful ideas and lessons, as well as encouraging us in our walk with God.

3) Games that are evangelistic in nature. This is obviously the most debated type on this board. Can a christian game be evangelistic? I devote the rest of this post to my thoughts on this topic.

So can a game reach unsaved people for Christ? No more than a good sermon. Jesus teaches that people only come to him when they are drawn by God. Only God can draw people and save them. However, just as sermons have their place and are quite important, we are to be following the command of the great commission and we are witnesses. I believe God gave some of us a gift to create artwork, and to understand the concepts of computer programming. If God gave these gifts to us, and we are to be good stewards of them, we must use them to bring glory to Christ. We each are called to use our gifts to fulfill the great commission. Game programmers, authors, and artists are no exception. All we need to do to fulfill this is create games that bear witness to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

However, I do not believe we can fulfill the great commission by seeking to avoid association with the name of Christ or Christian as some are suggesting. Making games that do not proclaim the gospel of Christ with boldness yet gentleness is still fine, but it falls more appropriately into the first category at the beginning of this post. It cannot really hope to be an evangelistic tool. I understand the "Christian" label will cause many to avoid the game, but these "afflictions" are to be expected...

Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God (2 Tim 1:8 KJV)

Also consider parents or siblings that will purchase the game with unsaved family members in the house. I was saved when I was 12. It would be 6 years before my brother was saved. My brother never was revolted by Christian ideas, he just took longer to surrender to them. We were still close and loved playing video games together. We had a weekly ritual of playing through Contra in 2-player mode. A high-quality Christian game could have been a very effective witnessing tool during that time.

Thanks for reading all this and I look forward to more discussion on this issue.

-moose

quote:

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Originally posted by graceworks:

Lord, if one soul is touched, was it worth it?

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Jesus certaintly thought so, and so do i. Lets do it guys, lets really touch peoples lives through what we do best.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

quote:

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Originally posted by Insanepoet:
Ok, this is why I make Christian video Games.

Games, to me, is just another medium to tell a story. So, the reason I make Christian video games is the same reason CS Lewis wrote his stories, which is the glorify God and worship Him in the form of a story.

I do not think that my games is going ot save the world and that millions will come to salvation because it's JUST A GAME.

People try to make games to be some great evangelistic tool, but the greatest evangelistic tool is how you live your lives and the way the Gospel is spread is through individual basis.

So, yes, it is good to be a programmer (or whatnot) surrouned by the ungodly, for they will see how you live your life and they will say that the God of the Bible must be real (If you live righteously, or course)

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Hmm, I agree with InsanePoet, no game is going to save thousands, but a good story can always be told.

[my thoughts, could be incorrect]:

Many people just need to be introduced to the Idea of Christ, and God can take over from their.

Hardcore Aithest need more convincing.

Why do i Alwasy post when im tired and i keep contradicting myself?!?!?

Ug... may be I'll make more sense tomorrow.

Which is in about and hour and a half...

Goodnight, and sorry for sucha lame post!

Edit: dang! I didn't see how long this was! Sorry, but I can't delete this post now!

=[

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yeah, im a little crazy

Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right.
The kingdom of heaven belongs to them.-Matthew 5:10

PM ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF ME! ILL PUT IT HERE!

Here's all the comments!

P.S. I HATE 640x480!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited July 15, 2006).]

Therfore, I formally support Moose in idea #1, although the other 2 ideas are worth while.
John
Veritech

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
char name['B','u','d','d','B','o''y']