Veritech

PS, my theory behind this is that there are many creations, and wys between them, and different things are good and vaild in them. my best Example again, is Narnia. different physics (flat world) people could use magic (Dr. Cornileous in Prince Caspian), and any number of different creatures.

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

Don't know the specifics on the origin of magic, but it was discussed in the Old Testament a bit.

However, based on the fact that you are creating a world outside of this world...why not just incorporate that people have the innate ability to do magic? I mean this world *is* different, so God gave them different abilities. Magic can only be used by *His* people on this other world...the demon-types on that world can't use it.

I dunno...just thinking out loud What do you think?

-Krylar

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Veritech

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

Veritech

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

(thought the message icon was fitting...hehehe)

-Krylar

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-Veritech

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

The CCN Home Page graphic and my signature (with a copy of the main circle/cross CCN graphic) were done in Paintshop Pro 6. There are many tutorials on the web for PSP and even my wife starting using it last night because of all the cool tricks you can do with it.

So...I would recommened PSP for your regular painting stuff cause it's waaaaaaaay less expensive than Photoshop and it's really good. For 3D stuff, I use trueSpace (and I stink at it ) and a free-ware package called Blender. Blender is excellent and the price is too! Blender's URL is: http://www.blender.nl/

Hope that helps!

-Krylar

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

quote:

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Originally posted by Krylar:
Exactly the way I was thinking about it. It's a *different* world with *different* rules. I like the idea

(thought the message icon was fitting...hehehe)

-Krylar

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Errmmm, if the different world does not have meaning, though analogy, metaphor or whatever, than there's really no need for questionable elements like magic, if you're making a Christian game.

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<h3><font color="blue"> joeG
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quote:

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Originally posted by joeG:
Errmmm, if the different world does not have meaning, though analogy, metaphor or whatever, than there's really no need for questionable elements like magic, if you're making a Christian game.

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I guess there's also the point of "did Christ have to give His life in the different world too?" If not, then how's the message relevant to this different world?

Good point, joeG.

-Krylar

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"Were plain lost Mr. Frodo" - JRR Tolkien

II

If Lewis's works had been without any of the spiritual metaphors, do you think that these books would have put a dent into satan's kingdom like they do, even now? I mean, I've seen the Chron. of Narnia recommended right along with Harry Potter as the best children's fantasy books even though they had "an overtly Christian theme!"

III. In my Own Humble Opinion

I have an idea for a Western MMORPG. It's going to be terrific fun to play. Yet spending years of my life to create it would probably be a waste of time (unless it was the Lord's Will) that could've been spent furthering the Gospel. So I'll probably just keep that on the backburner for a while, a long while. Why? Because there's nothing in it that will stop people in their tracks (on the road of Destruction) and maybe turn around and evaluate their eternal options. So, whether or not your game has allusions/metaphors to Christ is immaterial. What's important is that you cause people to look at the situation they're in and maybe even reevaluate it for the better. That being the case I find that allegories/metaphors are the easiest way to do this. I support these types of games because that is what I've seen done already (Lewis, et al.). If there's another way (don't care about the degree of effectiveness in causing people to think) I'd like to hear about it. Not an aggresive challenge, I'm enthusiastic to learn about different ways to solve the same problem.

P.S. Krylar, thanks for hooking me back up with my account. Also, could you up the font size of the msgs by one value please. They're a little small on my browser. If other people don't have a problem with the way things are now then I'll try to fix it at this end.

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<h3><font color="blue"> joeG
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[This message has been edited by joeG (edited January 26, 2001).]

I'm new here, but thought I'd inject a few thoughts of my own. I've struggled with this question off and on for almost 15 years, ever since I started writing text adventure games on my Vic-20 :-) I've come to a few conclusions in that time.

Arthur C. Clarke said it best: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

"Magic" is a subjective thing. Several centuries ago any one of us would have been burned as a witch by well meaning Christians had they seen the magic wands (remote controls) we use today to inprison people in plastic boxes (TVs) :-)

So when Yoda levitates a space ship, is that magic? To us it is. To him perhaps it's just an advanced knowledge of how to manipulate energy and atoms.

Games are like cartoons. I believe it's perfectly ok to invent your own laws of physics and allow characters in those games to take advantage of them (and any technology you see fit to invent). If this includes things like teleportation, telepathy, the ability to levitate or fly or to shrink down to a microscopic size... awesome!

If it includes the ability to mix ingredients (herbs, minerals, insects, whatever) and produce "magic" potions or medicines or even explosives... cool!

If it includes the ability to harness natural energies like the wind, lightning, sunlight, gravity, etc. and direct those energies in different ways... great!

That kind of "magic" isn't magic at all. It's just science in disguise.

The magic that is really harmful in games, and the type that should (in my opinion) be avoided by any and all Christian game developers, is the type that involves the worship (in any form) of deities other than God or any other activities that are commonly associated with the occult.

If you are developing a game that requires players to "pray" to their guild god to advance a level, or to sacrifice a child to obtain a special weapon, or to pledge allegiance to a demon to defeat a powerful foe, then you *seriously* need to re-think your design.

Same thing goes if your game requires or leads players to steal, murder, lie, lust, act violently, etc. It may seem silly, but all you really need to do is ask yourself this question: "Would Jesus write or play this game?"

[This message has been edited by Believer (edited January 31, 2001).]

quote:

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Romans 14 20-21:

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

1 Corinthians 10 31-33:

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God--
even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

---

I am a PK (Preacher's Kid), my dad was a Pentecostal pastor in various towns across Canada. We, as a family, had absolutely no problems with things like going to movies, playing with a deck of cards, and so on. Many people in these towns came from an Orthodox Ukranian background though, and if they thought that the Pastor's family ever went to a movie they'd have tarred and feathered us :-)

So I never did go to a movie until I was a teen. Not because we believed it was evil, but because it would be a problem for others. While we owned, and used, playing cards in our house, they were never left out in the open or used when guests were over.

So even if you are perfectly comfortable with a certain theme or idea in your game, even if you truly believe that God has no problem with it, take a step back and consider how it may be perceived by others (both Christians and potential Christians).

Might it cause them to stumble, making them feel like they are sinning? To second guess their faith in any way? If so you might want to adjust things a bit.

Of course this is a bit of a gray area. I mean, where do you draw the line? If a person tells you that he believes clothing is a sin, do you strip on the spot to keep him from stumbling in his faith? Hardly. Each and every circumstance requires a certain amount of common sense.

And there's no substitute for prayer.

"Can anyone think up an origin for magic, in another place where anything is possible?"

so far i haven't got much answering that question, tho alot of advice on not causing others to stumble. This is quite true, and i will be very carful about this, but it wasn't what i need to figure out...

Any responce on the main question would be most helpful, since im trying to figure out some main storyline in my game, and cant until i decide where magic comes from.

God's peace be with you all,
-Veritech

quote:

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"Can anyone think up an origin for magic, in another place where anything is possible?"

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I'm sorry, I don't mean to seem dense, but if you are in a world where anything is possible, why do you need to provide an explanation for the origin of such things? I mean, do the folks at Big Idea need to explain the origin of walking and talking vegetables for Veggie Tales? It's a fantasy world with made up rules, that should more than suffice as an explanation.

If you are trying to explain the existence of magical abilities in a world that's based on reality though, *that's* where you might need to explain the origin because it's unexpected.

I guess it depends on what kind of magic you want your game to have.

Can you give us some idea what your game is going to be about? or what you'd *like* it to be about? Perhaps we can help you develop a story line.

I think you should be very careful. If I were doing a christian game (and since I've been here, I've been inspired, so I will at some point ) I would avoid magical abilities of the player completely, and wouldn't put magic in a positive perspective.

This is, of course, providing magic is the ability to do supernatural things with either your own ability/knowledge, or with the help of some deity other than god.

I don't have the scriptures with me, but the strongest one that comes to mind is when Moses is wanted to leave the Pharoah with his permission, and the pharoah keeps on denying him because God hardens his heart. God does this so that God can show his power from the plagues and miracles. However the first 3 or 4 (I can't remember) the pharoah's magicians duplicated the feats of god so that there was disbelief that the miracles were from god. I'd provide the verses, but I just can't remember, so I might have got some of it wrong.

Anyhow, my point is that in this case magic was used as an example of another power other than god reproducing god's miracles to some extent. This means that those magicians were not of god, and were against him.

If the player in the game had the power to do magic, then where does god come into the picture? If the player can cast spells to heal a person, create water or food, or something else, then I can't see where god fits in because the player would be comfortable in the knowledge that he could just cast a spell and he'd be fine, and not rely on his faith of god at all.

I hope I'm coming across the right way, I'm just trying to say that if a character has the supernatural ability to do godly things, then his faith towards god is reduced, not increased. Each time we witness a miracle, we praise god all the more because we know its from god. If you case a spell to heal someone, they're going to thank you, not god.

If I may ask a question, what is the purpose of including magic in the game? Or flying horses and what not? Is it just because its in a fantasy world setting? or for some other reason?

Another idea I'd like to bring up is even though God can do anything, we don't know that he would. He might have made a world somewhere at sometime that you describe, but the only one we know he did make is this one. He might have had very good reasons not to include the things you describe in this world, maybe he didn't like them, I don't know. The one thing I'm sure about is that god made this world, so the way things are made here (walking horses, non flying people, people have two arms etc) are the way he wanted, and I'm not sure he'd want it any other way.

But if the world you want to create is based somewhat on this one, then magic could be interpreted the wrong way, and you'd have to be careful on how its presented.

Another one of believer's replies summed it up really well: "Would Jesus write or play this game?"

But yeah, let us know what your main idea of the game is, mabe we could all help out.

On one point I want to add to from beleiver (No I'm not picking on you, you just had some really neat responses ) is this one:
"
The magic that is really harmful in games, and the type that should (in my opinion) be avoided by any and all Christian game developers, is the type that involves the worship (in any form) of deities other than God or any other activities that are commonly associated with the occult.
"

I think another one to watch out for is any form of magic, or any action for that matter that isn't from god in some way. For example if you have the ability to create food, and all you do is create food and stuff your face all day. Or if you have the power to levitate things, and you use it to impress the opposite sex.

Oh, how do you guys do the quote tags as well?

Also, I've only read one of the veggie tales books, and I thought about it, if you replaced all the talking vegetables with talking people, would they be doing anything that a christian shouldn't do? Anyone shed any light on that?

God Bless,
Phillip Martin

I don't think any Christians would have a problem with a levitation ability as presented in a futuristic world where they've learned the secrets of creating gravity fields either. But levitating things in a medieval setting certainly seems more "magical" and would need a lot more explaining.

quote:

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Oh, how do you guys do the quote tags as well?

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Check this page: http://www.christiancoders.com/ubb/ubbcode.html

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But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.

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Now we are all vessels here in this world, some are "pottery...for common use" and others are "pottery for noble purposes (Romans 9:27)." By ourselves we are unable to do anything supernatural. We are fallen beings. Supernatural things that us humans perform are actions that are enabled by powers greater than us. We are just their vessels. The apostles of Acts performed great signs and wonders by God. Balaam and the witch of Endor did supernatural things through the power of the devil. You cannot tell me that any of these supernatural events are included in the human package. There is simply no evidence for that. It's a lie of the devil.

The wichen religion avoids allying themselves with satan, but they perform the same witchcraft as do Satanists. You cannot say that a person who practices white magic and does not ally themselves with the devil is any less guilty of the sin of witchcraft then a satanist.

When there is a power not from God portrayed to you as accessbile by everyone, and you accept this lie, you have just rebelled against the living God, because you have rejected his spiritual laws and his commands. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

In closing, be careful, we are accountable for evey word we speak here on earth.

joeG

Ok, heres a little bit of storyline, just to give you all a fell for what im trying to accomplish.
I want to start out in another world, and have the carachter act in that world for awhile. At some point, i want them to discover the existence of other worlds, and create a device to travel between them. I want the caracter to have to defeat some evil person, who also knows of different worlds, and is trying to destroy/conquer them.
Thats a rough idea of what i was thinking. Also in each world that the player visits, i want there to be several universal laws.
1.) There is always God and Satan, perhaps under different names.
2.) There is always an original choise, tho some may have evaded the original sin. If the world does commit the origial sin, then God will send his son to die for the worlds inhabitance. this does not neccesarily have to happen while the player is there, but ther must either be the foretelling of the sons coming, or the grateful remembrence of the redeemer.
3.) Magic/Skills will not work in worlds with different rules.
4.) God will always come to the aid of his chosen people

Hope this clears up any misconceptions, or ideas that im trying to support witchcraft in any way. I just have a creative mind, and wish to follow on a trail made by other great people. If you dont agree with me, and can site logical reasons why I am in fault, please tell me.

Thank's, i know this was a big post, but i needed to make myself clear.

May God grant you peace,
-Veritech

PS any ideas for worlds rules would be apreciated, i have a few ideas, but i want to make between 7 and 10, which is a considerable task, since i want to create a history behind each. reply or email me, if u wat to. my email is: johnstim@yahoo.com i check it several time a day.

joeG

quote:

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Originally posted by Veritech:

-snip-

PS any ideas for worlds rules would be apreciated, i have a few ideas, but i want to make between 7 and 10, which is a considerable task, since i want to create a history behind each. reply or email me, if u wat to. my email is: johnstim@yahoo.com i check it several time a day.

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I have an idea for a world, but it's a metaphor for a human's spirtual heart, and probably wouldn't fit well into an alternative universe like yours. I'll be thinking of different things. Try concentrating on different attributes of heaven, like the Mount of Assembly, and try to build around that, because, after all that's pretty much where creation first took place (angels). Try using dog's Star Wars name generator for the chararcters if you want.

joeG

1.) I'm probably not gonna have Earth as one of the worlds, but the first world will have similar rules to ours.

2.) The main caracter won't be doing magic, only some of the people who join you on ur quest will, and that will be based on the laws of there world.

Thinking more one the subject, im not sure if the people who join you should be able to leave there worlds. that would simplify things, sincce there tallents would work, but it would not be as exciting... No i think they can go with the main character, and just lose there abilitys in some other worlds.

BTW, the magic idea is not the main idea for the game, it's just a small part. The main system will be a job system, where the character and his friends learn different skills, such as weapon skills, doctor skills, ranger skills, craftsman skills (stone worker, smiths, carpenters, glass blowing, ect.), and may more, including alot of lore skills which help when trying to understand anchient or forine things. Also, im going to have multiple languages. Magic is just one set of skills, amoung MANY. I know that some people dont like so much detail, so im going to make it gradual, and also have 3 detail settings, general, specific and complex. These skills will be learned from books, schools, colleges, and other people.

Well hope this shows a little more of what I'm thinking about. Any ideas, on any skills would be helpful, tho im still trying to think of an origin for magic.

Peace in God,
-Veritech

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"Say another word, and I'll knock you down" Cor, son of King Lune, Archenland (Horse and His Boy)- CS Lewis

Veritech, I still think this is a cool idea. There was a SciFi book I'd read (the name escapes me at the moment) where there were a bunch of different people fighting the same cause, but were all from different worlds. They got together to stand against the evil forces and such.

The interesting part was that the ones from Planet A could use elemental-like magic, which to them was not magic but rather something they just learned growing up. The others looked at it as if it was magic because they couldn't do it. Then of course Planet B folks had their own abilities that appeared to be magical to the others...but to them it was just natural.

If I can remember the name of that book I'll let you know

I think we can kind of draw similar circumstance in today's world. People in really poor, non-technological, third-world countries, for example, would look at a TV as if it was something magical, but to us it's just a normal everyday piece of life. I know this is probably drawing a pretty rough analogy but I think it's a relavent one.

Or think about this: If I had a headset on and you had one on and you were standing with a bunch of people who had not seen any radio-like technology. Let's say that I stood way up on a hill and you asked the people to suggest if I should wave or jump up and down (you get the idea). Then they said something that you spoke into the microphone and I repeated...what would they think? If they heard my voice come through the headset...what would they think? They'd probably think that magic was involved.

What do you guys think?

-Krylar

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About technology observed as magic, sure why not. i was planing on making a futureistic society, space ships, lazer weapons, a star wars type feel. if you take any of that type of equipment to, say, a mideval world, then There probably gonna think of you as some type of magic user.

On another note, i dont think all the enemys in the game will nescesarily be evil. At the begining of the game, i'll just have wild animals, or perhaps bandits. What i mean is note part of the big evil that the character is trying to stop.

Also, for world history, i think i want sever promanent family names, and people in that family are specially skilled at certain things. For instance, a warrior family have special bonuses for warrior skills. same for a doctors family, a smith, a carpenter, ECT. So at the begining of the game, you pick your family, and meet others in your travels. What ya think?

well, as always, thanks to everyone on there imput, it really does help alot, getting ideas straight in my head, and puting the into a more solid form, not all over the place.

May God's peace be with you all,
-Veritech

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"Say another word, and I'll knock you down" Cor, son of King Lune, Archenland (Horse and His Boy)- CS Lewis

Peace in God,
-Veritech

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"Say another word, and I'll knock you down" Cor, son of King Lune, Archenland (Horse and His Boy)- CS Lewis

This is going to be a very long, post because I've read some of your comments, some because I am not a good reader, I can only read for aprox 10mins tops and at that end slowly, thankfully I can write much longer than I can read .. bizzare but there you have it.. maybe it's because my emotions get the better of me, and make me speak before I've read too much, whatever the case this is my point of view.

The problem with gameing in general is, everything is voilent, the top programmers of games today, are fixated and zombie a like in there efforts to make games that they think people want, such for example I shall use my own experances with a game called Unreal Tournament otherwise known as UT which is how I'll reference it in future, please take note not from my words but by looking into the gameing industry as a whole, every game that comes out, that I can think of makes you try to "kill" or "illminate" which is the same thing, but never the less something in order to progress into the game more, offline games you are told you have to "kill", x,y or z or in any comination of such, such as in order to win the game of UT you must defeat 100's of humanioud like people and monsters just for added effect and distraction from what your actually doing, in order to "kill" Xan, the robot that was a winner of previous tournaments.

Online this game takes a whole new aspect of gameing no longer are you killing a programmers ellaberate mathamatics, your actually killing other "reallife" players within the game, which is 1 step away from actually physical in the real world acting out the actually event, when you die, you respawn no worries, of cause in the real world we don't respawn, currently there is a disernment from game and reallife, there are certain developments in the world now, that you can buy that will make it more real, the so called game of unreal eventually becoming real, the weak minded will eventualy not be able disern from the real world, and the game world, and hence forth murders.

The biggest question that flys in the face of us all, is how do you make a Christian Game, we've all been lead already Christian or not, that there are genres of games, and no one single person of gameing has ever stepped outside those walls, when was the last time you saw something that was orginal, from the ground up, UT is just a direvitive of Wolfenstine 3D back in the 80's that is all it is, with more glossy paint work and effects throw in.

To use magic is fundermentally wrong, why because God teaches us that we shouldn't lie, if we shouldn't lie to others, then we sure as God exists shouldn't lie to ourselfs either, creating a game of a magnatude of another world or with magical powers, is lyning to yourself that you are this person running around a game, trying to do goals which is a bould faced lie, your not, your pressing keys, that produce events which interact with your view of the events, the gameing world is a place where there are no ramifications of you getting anything wrong, you are in a sence perfection, when you play a game, which is yet again another lie.

The whole world not just a few the whole lot of the world that plays a game, is trying to escape reality, reality?.. what could be so bad in reality that they you me and the next person would want to hide from well, 2 things God, and there own personal problems, which if they turned to God in the first place they wouldn't have any problems that wasn't soon looked after.

Our world is comeing to a point where there is no point of return, the question is do us as programmers which to excellorate this by makeing more of the devils games, or develop something besides this?.

This is hard, because not only do we have to throw away everything that we've seen and heard from all the other games that we've played but we have start again, look at the gameing world in a diferent way, how do you keep the laws of God in a computer game, try it it's actually very hard.. follow all the 10 commandments, as rules for not putting something into a game, if you break one, the game has to be restarted from the beginning so as not to break that rule, as far as I am aware there is no way that currently can think of, of a design of game that doesn't break any of these commandments.

We should not delude ourselfs with lies, and instead delude ourselfs with the truth.

You believe that violence against life-like humanoids is wrong. Are you talking about all violence or just certain types of violence like murder?

You believe that the purposes of all video games are just to escape reality.

An avatar (person plays through a character)-based game is basically a lie that should not be used when designing a game.

I know the people here and there arguments that they'd probably use against your statements. I just wanted to let you qualify/explain yourself, before they replied to you.

You call for pretty high standards. Please describe a game (or an aspect of a game) that fits these standards. I have a difficult time trying to construct a game that preaches Christ, and I am open to any ideas you might have.

Whatever transpires, remember that most of us are fellow believers, who share the common bond of the unity through the Holy Spirit. [In other words, don't get too miffed ;-) ].

joeG

†Caleb†

quote:

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Originally posted by joeG:
Well, let's start with no mis-understandings...
You believe that violence against life-like humanoids is wrong. Are you talking about all violence or just certain types of violence like murder?

You believe that the purposes of all video games are [b]just to escape reality.

An avatar (person plays through a character)-based game is basically a lie that should not be used when designing a game.

I know the people here and there arguments that they'd probably use against your statements. I just wanted to let you qualify/explain yourself, before they replied to you.

whatever transpires, remember that most of us are fellow believers, who share the common bond of the unity through the Holy Spirit. [In other words, don't get too miffed ;-) ].

joeG
[/B]

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And type of game actually that contains a voilent act, such as for example; Mario .. you run along a scrolling map, shotting and killing off crabs and other such animals, which ultimatly gloryifies killing, it's interesting to note that over the years, games have become more and more voilent, so much so that there is a setting in UT to turn down the gore level, for those that might be offended by such acts.

The type of game depends on the level of escapism, like FPS would be very high level, because it contains a world that you can walk around, much like the real world, where as a cartoon type game like Mario would be very low, because it doesn't look like anything real.

I didn't ( I hope ) say these things shouldn't be used, but it all depends on the way there used take Diablo for instants this is a bad use of it, because it is satanic to say the lest, the very idea that you could be able to kill the devil or (okay they call it something else) Diablo, makes it appear as thou the player is greater than God, but never the less the references to satian are very high in that game, the thing and the point is, that any of these methods can be used for a Godly purpose, remember anything that satian makes can be bent into the will of God as long as God wants it too be.

Well obviously, people are going to have diferents of ideals it would be a boring earth if everyone had the same idea, that is why God made us with these diferences, so that we can learn from each other.

The only time I get annoyed is when someone picks on my spelling, or directly insults me , other wise I am pretty happy go lucky person.

So, you're saying that you'll still be okay with violence, just as long as it doesn't glorify the devil, right?

I think most people here would agree with that...

joeG

†Caleb†

1. Is it wrong to imagine? what you call escapism, i call a vivid imagination. This, as most things, can be taken to bad extremes, but i think that some escape is good and needed. If God didn't want us to imagine, then why would he give us the ability to do so? Imagining is great for spare time, However, if it distract you from what you should be doing, (that can be almost anything) then you need to take a break. This world is the most real, you live, work, and die here, you need to be connected to it. What i mean is that if someone escapes problems by playing games, thats wrong. But really thats a user problem, and has nothing to do with the game designers.

2. What is your argument on Violence? I dont follow your logic on it. Yes, some 3d shoot um ups are gory. I avoid them usually. However, what you call "glorified killing" i see as the distruction of evil. What you you do if a rabid wolf came runing into your room? I'd shoot it. Also, man was given dominion over the world, to use to our benefit. So if the animals are attackng the character, or are possesed (possesed animals is biblical, the heard of swine, for instance) Then they must be defeated. However, this is different with people. God does allow us to kill others, but only when he tells us to. there are many examples of this in the bible. Also, killing in defence is acceptable. If someone trys to mug you, are you just gonna stand there or fight back?

3. Did i understand you right when you said you dont think role playing (being a character in a game) is wrong? If so, i have much fire for you ^_^ but i wont realese that argument unless im sure.

4. 3d shooters, more specific. I think that some are fine, but alot use weapons that should be used, and are to realistic in the deaths of others. I dont, however, think that killing each other online is wrong. (one exception, will state later) Both sides know it's a game, and are just playing it like they would any other sport, or even paintball. The exception to this is when there is a gory death, like alot of blood, so it looks realistic. This, quite frankly is very wrong. Of course it will be taken the wrong way if you shoot someone and the explode into a pile of blood and bones. Where do you stand on this? If you would argue that they ALL have gore, i would ask you to play Jedi Knight, there is no gore, and you get a light saber ^_^ I frequently play this game, and see nothing wrong with it, in any way.

If you would respond to those 4 Querys, i would be most apreciative.

Peace in God,
Veritech

PS these were the fellings of Veritech alone (unless someone says otherwise), And this page should not be held acountable for what i have said. I, however, fell strongly about what i have said, and will debate my point of view.

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

In defence of 1, 2, and 4:

God created us in His image. He is very creative. We too are creative. We cannot create anything that doesn't contain the elements He gave us, but we can use those elements to create.

And are we not all created uniquely as well? Don't each of us have different interests than others? We design games, but of all types...others write books, build houses, paint, draw, etc. It's all a differing view. We were certainly created with the ability to create, and our uniqueness just brings additional means of bringing glory to God.

My point? That while creating bloody gory games is not (IMO) a method of bringing glory to God, using the creativeness and gifts He has given us is.

-Krylar

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2 . Jesus came to this world to show us the right way to live, knowing full well that not all of us would be able to follow in his foot steps perfectly, died for our sins, but we should all try to follow those foot steps, becayse they are right and true, so if Jesus wouldn't have done something nor should we, I can't see Jesus coming up and shotting and killing something.

3 . wrong end of stick, no genere is wrong per-say, just the usage of it has to be monitored.

4 . Does star wars gloryify God or Man?, uhmm well Darth Vader would be the devil, because he is so evil, and luke would be man, so the very thought that man could defeet the devil single handedly, with a futurestic battel weapon is laughable , if your going to escape it would be better to escape into the Bible rather than something that is man made.

[This message has been edited by Inner (edited February 16, 2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Inner:

4 . Does star wars gloryify God or Man?, uhmm well Darth Vader would be the devil, because he is so evil, and luke would be man, so the very thought that man could defeet the devil single handedly, with a futurestic battel weapon is laughable , if your going to escape it would be better to escape into the Bible rather than something that is man made.

[This message has been edited by Inner (edited February 16, 2001).]

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You bring up a good point Inner! I also think that using something like a rifle against a spirit is somewhat ludicrous. I think that if you have to create a reason why a conventional weapon like a rocket launcher will put away a demon then I'd reason that you're wasting your talent in the wrong direction. Instead you should focus on creating gameplay that is more native to real spiritual warfare. For instance sword-based gameplay would be one step closer but you must then consider just how a sword will vanquish your opponents. Or maybe it could be something similar to Streets of Rage format where the main weapon is your fists. Whatever you choose you'd better be able to relate it to something real (whether by analogy or whatever).

joeG

First off, whats wrong with star wars? it's a bad guy verse a good guy, and they fight with swords. The creature was not trying to "symolise" anything, except that light conqueors dark. Vader was a man, who had chosen to do evil, and was in no way the devil. if you want to say he symbolized satan, (i thouroly dont agree with that) Then Luke would be representative of an angel, not man... Ok, i'll leave star wars alone now (my all time favorite series ^_^)

Secondly, of course you culdn't fight a deomon, with human weapon, only with the Word of God. And this is Not symbolized by a sword. It says in the Bible the the word is sharper the a double edged sword, not that it is one. In an RPG (i always talk aboput them, because i'm most well versed in the RPG theory) the character would not be fighting deomons, other than to cast them out of people, but would be fighting men. The reasons for the fight would be a direct order from God, or in self defence. So talking about bombs on demons are not relavent.

Sorry if i have said this in an offensive way, it was not meant that way, it was meant to get my point across, and show that i am adament in my beliefs. Also, i'd like to here others opions on this issue.

-Veritech

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

quote:

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Originally posted by Veritech:
Secondly, of course you culdn't fight a deomon, with human weapon, only with the Word of God. And this is Not symbolized by a sword. It says in the Bible the the word is sharper the a double edged sword, not that it is one.

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Hey, just to let you know Veritech, the Word of God is symbolized by a sword. Ephesians 6:16 says to "take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." (NLT)

†Caleb†

"Eph:6:16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

is my translation of Ephesians 6:16

The question then now is, are we human supposed to fight and kill evil on our own?

Also, I'd like to point out that God told the Israelites to go to war with other countries, so war can't always be wrong.

†Caleb†

However, until that day, we must do our best to be peaceful yet strong: don't encourage fight, but don't step away from one either. The old testement shows us that God told the Isrealites several times to go to war, so it's not possible that it's wrong, else God would have told them not to.

I sugest you we don't talk about star wars, if it bothers you so, and talk about other topics. Heres a good one, What do you think about Narnia, by CS Lewis?

God's peace be in us all,
-Veritech

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

Have you read Lewis's sci fi books yet (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and/or That Hidden Strength)? I thought the last one, That Hidden Strength was a great example of how to mix a current day setting with some medieval and spiritual elements. Good stuff.

joeG

Okay, look I like the movies from Star Wars, it was just an objective look at it from a diferent angel, I feel we should pay close attention to what we read/write & see, because these things influence us.

CS Lewis?, uhmm I don't read books too many long words, and takes way long to read.. in other words I am not very good a reading, however strange at may seam, I can read the Bible for hours without any effort.

joeG

Inner: I Agree, wars not good, a nesasary(spelling) Evil if you will. Narnia is easy reading, the books are like 120 pages long, and the story's are all christian anaolgies, like in the first book, Aslan(Jesus) gives his life to save a trator, and rises from the dead the next day. And Aslan is usually in the form of a lion (the lion of Judah) or a lamb. An excellent series, i'd try to read it, even if it takes you a year a book.

Inner: If you read back in this message (i know its long) You'll find my ideas clearly and logically laid out. If you dont, you probably keep bringing up subjects which i have already explained my views on. Since you dont like to read, i will from now on direct you to the page, and the post number which you should read to answer your Questions.

All: Anyone have any new ideas on a Magic system for another world? I've been working on my skill system, quite ellaborite so far, but im missing the magic asspect still, and how it affects other skills.

May God's blessings and Peace be with you all,
-Veritech
PS, whjat do you think of my quote?

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

Peace in God,
-Veritech

Never the less I still have to try very hard to read

Any way it's been real interesting the last few days reading all your comments, and it's going to be an interesting future reading more

btw: something you might like to check out;

http://home.bluemarble.net/~heartcom/usseizesachurch.html

Keep the faith.

BTW inner, i got a friend who hates to read, so i understand where ur coming from. He dosn't like to concentrate long enough to sit down and read. Is this the same as you, or something else?

So, are you gonna make a game inner? Just currious, you have alot of interesting opinions, so i wonder what kind of a game you would make ^_^

Ok, this is getting long, see ya all 'round,
-Veritech

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

Uhmm no it's not the not wanting to read that is the problem it's the factor of how soon the dyslexia atempts to highjack my brain and send it skyward

Well uhmm neither do I know the workings of that piticuar church, but never thess haven't you noticed it's very quite out there?