While this all would be trivial to another person, this means a lot to me. It just makes me so stinking mad at myself. I feel like destroying something, mostly myself. I mean, I don't seriously feel like killing myself, but... well, you know, I just get really mad at myself! This kind of thing sinks me into a depression that can last for days.

The main issue is I get so mad at myself that I refuse to accept God's forgiveness for a while, because I feel so undeserving. And I know that there are a ton of people that are way more undeserving than I am, and I know that it doesn't matter to God how many times you slip up as long as you get back up again, I know all that, ...it's just that sometimes I don't let myself believe it. Not for a while anyway. It's almost like I try to punish myself. I do that a lot, actually. My self-punishment takes the form of verbal abuse, most commonly. When I'm like this, I'm not very fun to be around. I don't do this just when I break my video games commitment, I do it every time a commit a sin that I've committed many times before and should know better than to do.

I know that it's wrong to punish yourself like that, but I don't believe it. Does that make sense?: I know it, but I don't believe it. I just don't know how else to handle it. Arg. Prayer and/or advice would be apreciated. Actually, forget the "or," I want both!

†Caleb†

PS: If you haven't ever read my article and don't plan to, don't bother replying to this. I don't want to waste time going over ground that has already been covered.

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

In other words, if doing something will cause you to condemn yourself, just don't do it. A good way to get into this habit is to remind yourself at the point of temptation how you will feel about yourself afterwards if you follow through on it.

Also, you said:

quote:

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The main issue is I get so mad at myself that I refuse to accept God's forgiveness for a while, because I feel so undeserving.

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It's Easter, there's no better time to keep in mind that everyone was and is undeserving, that's what the cross was about. I honestly pray you grow past this problem, either by reaching a point where you don't condemn yourself for a recreational activity, or at least reach a point where you're able to maintain the strength of your convictions.

quote:

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imsold4christ:
Does that make sense?: I know it, but I don't believe it.

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Yeah. It does. Though I tend to use it the other way around.

I did read your article and was very impressed by the commitment you made. I don't think I have the strength for it. Of course, If God told me to drop the computer game, I would have to (though I don't feel that's my calling). I do, sometimes, spend WAAAAAY to much time playing games. It can be pretty absorbing, couldn't it?

It's good to get frusterated when you break a commitment. Many people really could care less if they break their commitments. But don't beat yourself up about it, though. You got to fight that feeling.
Remember, With God, all things are possible.
Also, you're human, we all are, and we all make mistakes. The question is, what are you going to do about it?
Don't stay down, God's there to pick you up and to march with you to face all the battles you will face. This doesn't mean sin all you want, obviously, but when you do, God's there.
Keep strong. Do God's Will. Fight the Good Fight of Faith.
You got our prayers, homie!

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

quote:

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Originally posted by christian:
I won't comment again on the insanity of condemning yourself for playing video games

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"Again"? I don't recall having that discussion with you before, but I could be wrong about that. Regardless, I don't think you know exactly where I'm coming from. Did you read my article in all of it's entirety?

quote:

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Originally posted by christian:
A good way to get into this habit is to remind yourself at the point of temptation how you will feel about yourself afterwards if you follow through on it.

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This part is actually helpful advice. It's so simple, yet so many people don't pause to really think about it. I actually did think of that before doing it, but then told myself that since it would just be for a second, it wouldn't be that bad. Stupid me, I should've known better. The whole time there was that voice inside telling me not to do it. Had only I paused longer to think about it, I probably wouldn't have done it.

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
I did read your article and was very impressed by the commitment you made. I don't think I have the strength for it. Of course, If God told me to drop the computer game, I would have to (though I don't feel that's my calling). I do, sometimes, spend WAAAAAY to much time playing games. It can be pretty absorbing, couldn't it?

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Thank you.

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
It's good to get frusterated when you break a commitment. Many people really could care less if they break their commitments. But don't beat yourself up about it, though. You got to fight that feeling.

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Indeed, but where is the balance between the two? I don't want to not care, but I don't want to continually beat myself up about it either. Of the two, I would personally rather beat myself up, which is probably why I do it. How soon after committing a repetetive sin do you repent? If I committed such a sin and then turned around and asked for forgiveness the second after I was finished, it would feel really ingenuine. And one thing I hate to be more than anything else is ingenuine.

Out of this whole discussion I think this last paragraph I wrote is the one I want answered the most.

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

[This message has been edited by imsold4christ (edited April 16, 2003).]

Read 1 Cor 11, it talks about the communion service and, I believe, holds the answer to your question. The idea of communion is to remember Christ's sacrifice and measure ourselves against it. How could anyone do that without feeling unworthy ? But the point is not to beat ourselves up, it's to use that reminder to consider what we could have done better, and then go out and do it. The point is not to look back and feel bad, it's to look forward and feel better about how we're going to improve our walk with God. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with gaming per se, but that is not the point. Whatever you feel bad about, feel good about trying harder, and about having a conscience. Don't waste your time worrying about the past, you can't change it. Focus on changing the future.

Your communion example is pretty good. But there's also another passage that supports your point better that I think you've missed. I've been waiting for someone to quote it, but no one has. It's Philippians 3:12-14, which says:

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. (NIV)

Anyway, you made a couple good points, but I still don't feel that you've answered my question. I will say it again: How soon after committing a repetetive sin do you repent? If I committed such a sin and then turned around and asked for forgiveness the second after I was finished, it would feel really ingenuine. And one thing I hate to be more than anything else is ingenuine.

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

[This message has been edited by imsold4christ (edited April 16, 2003).]

quote:

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How soon after committing a repetetive sin do you repent?

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To be honest, that depends on the individual, but I'd suggest it's usually right away. That is the nature of sin, it tempts until we succumb and then leaves us feeling empty and knowing that we have done wrong.

The scripture you pointed out is another good one, here's a third.

Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Hbr 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus was tempted as we are, yet without sin. James says we are drawn away by our own lusts and enticed - this does not mean that JEsus was tempted by net pr0n, or video games, or whatever, it means He knows what it's like to have your own desires and be tempted by them.

Ozman, I have to hand it to you for being the most active and fastest replying member on this board. Where do you find the time?

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

quote:

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imsold4christ:
How soon after committing a repetetive sin do you repent?

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I'd agree with Christian, and say that probably immediately.
It all depends on the heart, not the time. God looks at your heart and motivations. Someone can be sorry right after a sin, and maybe another time, unrepentant.

P.S. yeah, Christian is a dedicated member. It's amazing.

Dude, Christian, You are MeanManInOz.
Solved the mystery. I rock.

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

And you're right, I never made a secret of my desire to change my nick, and when I couldn't, I just created a new account. The MMIO moniker was stupid of me, I always regretted it.

Oh and on the subject of temtation... mine is more to putting myself in a coma then just porn, angure or something like that. I have always found my existance as meaninless and not worth while. My wife often argues the point with me but I have yet to change my mind. (Note: Im not interested in any of you changing my mind eather.)

~Angel~

quote:

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Angel:
...mine is more to putting myself in a coma...

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for a second, I though of sleep.
Sleep is something I'm good at.

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

[This message has been edited by Angel (edited April 23, 2003).]

That would cause way more problems than it would solve. Pretty much every aspect of my life is connected to a computer in some way. It would make things harder, not easier. God did not tell me to give up computers, he told me to give up video games.

Angel:

Hey now, I didn't say ALL games, I said video games. Did I mention I love playing the board game Risk?

I have never known making promises to God to be unbiblical. I took a cursory look through Exodus and did not find anything that said so. I know that the Bible certainly says we shouldn't make RASH promises to God. But that is not what I have done. I assure you deep thought and consideration has gone into my decision. Rash promises are promises you probably won't be able to keep, but I have kept my promise for the most part. This thread is merely about a rare occurence in which I did slip up. I slipped up because I'm human, and it doesn't mean I should just throw everything out the window. I would find some Biblical references supporting making promises to God, but right now I have to do some major homework. :P

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

Leviticus 19:12 - And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

Isaiah 66:1 - Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

James 4:13 - Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and get gain"; 14 whereas you do not know about tomorrow. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and we shall do this or that." 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

The rest of that part with James is well worth the read.

Anyways from this I have gatherd that a man dosnt know that much. He cant tell what is to come. So by binding yourself to a promiss that last your life time you are making a promiss you dont know if you can keep. "If the Lord wills, we shall live and we shall do this or that". Anyways this is why I never give a promiss about anything... other then my marrage. A marrage is permenent in the scripture anyways. A righeous person would do all that they could to keep their wedding vows till death.

Anyways you do as you want. Dont take all that I say as the gospul truth. This is just were my walk has lead me.

~Angel~
PS- Sorry about the bad post earlyer. My little girl needed me and I was in a frenzy of scripture and screeming baby. Again sorry.

I've been pondering recently about some of the points you raise in your article, because I myself recently felt a conviction to stop playing my favorite first person shooters.

I used to play a lot of Counter-strike, too much. People will always protest that violent video games don't affect us, but I know myself I didn't feel very close to God after a few hours of killing and maming people, even it wasn't real. And I could also see that it was taking up too much of my time, often time that I should have been spending with God.

I think we always run into problems when we make laws for ourselves, so I haven't given up all things which resemble video games. If someone says "here is a video game you should try", I will make a descision on that specific situation, as led by my convictions, and always try to open be open to what God is saying. I can now clearly see the benefits of not playing certain video games.

However if I had a problem with video games in the same way that I had problems with pornography, that approach would not work. If you have a problem with something or addiction, you cannot think about it rationally, or be open to what God is saying, so it is necesary to take radical steps to cut that thing completely out of your life. In that situation, giving yourself a "law" not to touch that thing may be very necessary.

I don't believe that God wanted to give the Isrealites the Law. I think he would have preferred them to live by faith, but because their minds were rebellious and incapable of thinking rationally about sin, it was necessary for God to give them specific rules for each aspect of their lives. It is easy to see the problems with the Law: men ignored the spirit of what was written, and made every effort to find loopholes in the letters of the Law.

I don't mean to suggest that video games are inherently sinful, like pornography is, but that an addiction to anything will produce the same bad fruit in us. I don't consider alcohol inherently sinful, but I abstain from drinking it, because God convicted me (specifically me) to do so, and now I can clearly see the benefits that have come from removing it from my life.

But just as addiction produces bad fruit, so does abstaintion if it is for the wrong reasons. If I abstain from something out of faith, I am filled with joy because I know I am pleasing my Father in Heaven. However if I abstain from something for any other reason, I will become bitter towards my fellow brothers who do not share my convictions, and perhaps bitter towards God for not rewarding my abstaintion.

The Bible warns against swearing by God, making promises to Him that you cannot keep and all forms of legalism, but it also urges us to be radical and holy people. Sometimes it seems a tight rope walk, but I believe God that God asks for nothing more than we live by faith. The Lord knows that we are all very different people with different problems and leads us in different ways.

Just a few thoughts. God Bless

Rowan

I'm out, gotta work, later!

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
It bothers me when people make up their own rules and hold them up like they're God's. It's arrogant, constricting, and superfluous.

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Indeed, but that's not what I'm doing. And yes, I am very sure of what God has told me.

Rowan, you're right on. I'm in complete agreement with ya. I like what you have to say.

Angel... I can follow your logic, but, I respectfully disagree with it, at least in part. James is talking about people who are boasting about their own personal plans for their life. But this is not something I dreamt up myself, it's from God. So I don't think that verse can really be applied. This doesn't necessarily void your argument, but it does mean that it's not completely supported by scripture.

It's good to be very careful about the vows we make, I agree, and I am.

Ok, here's that scripture reference I said I would give: 1st Samuel Chapter 1. In it (in verse 11), Hannah promises that if the Lord will give her a son, she will dedicate him completely to God. And so God gave her a son, and as soon as she got the boy eating solid food, she had to give him up to the priest. This may seem a sad story to some parents, but Samuel thrived there and grew up to be a mighty man of God. Clearly God's guiding hand is shown in this story. Therefore, a lifelong-affecting promise to God is not necessarily wrong. Sure, they can be pretty tough to keep at times, but that doesn't mean you should never ever make them.

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

quote:

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Originally posted by imsold4christ:
AmazingJas:

That would cause way more problems than it would solve. Pretty much every aspect of my life is connected to a computer in some way. It would make things harder, not easier. God did not tell me to give up computers, he told me to give up video games.

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I know, ideally you should just be able to say, 'I will not do this again' but as you know, this isn't always enough.
Just out of curiousity, how do you see Board games as different from computer/video games? Is it the (often) solitary nature? You probably already covered this in your previous article, but for some reason, my browser won't go there at the moment, maybe after a reboot..
oh, and you can call me Jas I'm not really all that amazing.

edit: Ok, I finally got through to your testimony. Interesting. I'm impressed with your will power. I respect that a lot. I have a bit of the same type of gaming obsession you had, but I found rather than just depriving myself of it, that by increasing my efforts in the other things I should be doing, my obsession decreased immensely and I think I have a happy balance. Cheers.

[This message has been edited by AmazingJas (edited April 24, 2003).]

Well to put simply my life has placed me into my view. Thats why I often say its your own walk with God. You should be the one praying and feeling things out.

~Angel~

"Jas": Yep, good guessing. Video games typically require you to spend large amounts of time playing them alone before you can get good enough to beat your friends at them. With board games, that's not nearly so much the case. But aside from all that, the main reason I play board games and not video games is because God didn't tell me not to play board games.

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."