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Healthy and Godly Masculinity – klumsy

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
quote:

this may stray the topic, but where did we get our love of violence?
from my experience, many of our wrong desires are perversions of good things.
porn and stuff is a perversion of sex.
revenge is a perversion of justice.
but, where did violence come from?
did it come from the human nature to push on against all odds? to resist others in doing whats right?
heck, Spiritual warfare, i guess, you can call violence. just not against people. (which, in my mind, is the thing wrong with violence)
um... okay... maybe this was a worthless post. lol.

archangel touch on an important topic (i just moved it to this new thread).
we do not want to 'feminise' boys and make them effeminate little wimps. There is an element how we are made, as warriors of God, and with testosterone.. sure we don't fight in the flesh, but have to have that same determination, grit, perserveance, when on our knees doing spiritual warfare. Also roughhousing and "physical sport".. and hard work, is built into us. I don't want to portray a christian male as somebody who has to be a wimp, quite the contrary, but as a male, our fallen nature perverts both our sexual drive, and our testosterone drive, but as redeemed men of God , we can use what God created in right ways. and anything less than that is missing a big part of who God made us to be.

so friends wresttle and play with each other, not doing real harm (other than by accident).. maybe even some light boxing.. but boxing itself as a sport (i believe) is wrong, because the purpose is not some friendly (or competitive) sport, but to actually knock out (with great potential for damage) a person who is made in the image of God.. You see the line is very narrow here, but we have liberty in Christ, and i'm sure that if we submit our desires, ideas , mindsets to Christ, and seek his face (and seek his kingdom first), and are willing to give up everything if he asks, He will be faithful and true to show us what is good and edifying and what is not. anyway rather than focusing on the not's as in the other threads,
let people share their ideas, on "healthy and Godly Masculinity"
and maybe begin a study into this scripture
matt 11:12
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force"

i am from New Zealand/Aoteara and we are a warrior people and we often deal with the issue of how we are warriors as christians.. but i want to oepn up the floor now to you all

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
so... what is wrong about violence?
the thing I would say is hurting, or the intent of hurting, people. not the violence itself. I guess you can saw Jesus was violent at times. In the bible, he was throwing tables around and stuff when he saw people selling things in the temple.
I also believe that violence can be used for good, in the case of defending people.

I, personally, am really big on Spiritual Warfare. Paul points out how living for God is a war. We christians form together an army, backing eachother up. people have they're own missions, their own tasks, and skills. We fight one common enemy, satan and his demons. Christians take hits and become casualties of war. etc. then there's the armor... it all comes together. haha. it became my philosophy.
(a good book on spiritual warfare is "Spirit Warrior" by Stu Baker. Stu Baker is a pastor/ex Green Beret Captain.)

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Soterion Studios

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Jesus had every right to throw over the tables and whip those people in the Temple who were selling animals and such, just as God has every right to cast those who reject Him into an eternity of Hell. Although God wants all to spend eternity with Him, the absolute truth and simple fact is righteousness and iniquity cannot dwell together - by both definition and principle. But these are not rights that belong to us, because God is Creator and Jesus is His son. We are not any more righteous in the judgment of our fellow man than we are in our actions as the righteous children of God - it is only through the redeeming blood of Christ that we attain any righteousness in God's eyes at all.
Consider what happened to the world when God saw how much violence was in it - otherwise known as the worldwide flood. Every living person (except Noah and the other 7 of his family) was killed by God. Noah and his family survived because God was pleased by Noah's righteousness. This example clearly shows what God thinks of the violence of man. And it is important to remember what we know of Noah's day and age, as that is a precursor to the last days. To get a better understanding of what the Bible means when the word is employed, read this (it is important to read it thoroughly and completely).
It is also important to remember that the illustration of armor and warfare, especially in the latter parts of the New Testament, is to convey the concept of the human flesh being against the godly spirit in those who are believers. It is also instruction on how the human flesh can be overcome by properly engaging in activities that cause the godly spirit to mature and grow in strength. You cannot ignore the historical period these words were uttered to the believers and churches at the time, as the reason for using the symbols of going to war and being a soldier were elements of life that theses people were surrounded by. It was a visual illustration to reflect on in the mind for the purpose of understanding the principles of living a godly life. Like all the principles in the Bible, this one builds off of others, and also supports other principles, to build a clear foundation for Christian living. In other words, you cannot take this one principle away from all the others to build a philosophy of life. The collection of principles in the Bible is to be your philosophy of life.
The argument that the Bible contains violence, and therefore it is acceptable, is a foolish argument - built on an obvious lack of understanding and wisdom. To those who do not know God, most of the Bible is an historical narrative and the rest is just nonsense. Deuteronomy 9 explains why God directed his chosen people to engage in the violent activity of battle. Those who view the Bible as a violent book do so revealing their ignorance. The facts are the facts, and they cannot be disputed. To dispute them is to throw out all of history, which clearly is an irrational notion - regardless of the reasons for not accepting truth.
To us, as Christians, the Bible is more than a history book. It is a lesson in how God guides those who serve and worship Him. It is a revelation from God to us - educating us on what is right in His eyes, what is wrong in His eyes, what is a failure of trusting Him, and so forth. Those who do not want to understand God simply will not understand the Bible. But that is also an example of our God's mercy and saving grace - for those who do want to know God will be supplied the wisdom and understanding about the things of God.

I hope these words greet you with the attitude intended, in Christian love and for instruction in righteousness unto perfection (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

God bless,
Matt

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
um... I think you took what I said out of proportion...

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Soterion Studios

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
quote from your website archangel
quote:

Captian Carnage
Viet Cong: Operation SlaughterHouse

all I can say is... think Vietnamese jungles, lone jeep, millions of Commies, and killing them all. that pretty much summarizes it.


We make Hippies mad.



anything wrong with that sort of violence? (let alone the worldview behind it)

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Miami Brice

Member

Posts: 41
From: Baltimore, MD
Registered: 04-19-2004
quote:
all I can say is... think Vietnamese jungles, lone jeep, millions of Commies, and killing them all. that pretty much summarizes it.
I was unaware we were fighting the Russians (commies) in Vietnam, I would have sworn we were fighting the Vietnamese, more specific North Virtnamese. Perhaps you are looking for the term "Vietcong" or "Charlie", either way, "Commies" is a term that is generally not used with the war.

Vietnam isn't something to joke about either. I can remember as a kid going off base with my Dad (in the Air Force at the time) into town and having urine and feces thrown on me, being spit on and being hit, solely because I was with my Dad who was in uniform. It got so bad they didn't allow servicemen off base in uniform for a long time.

There are lots of people still alive who suffered through WW2 who would not think twice about slitting the throat of anybody who jokes about WW2 and walks around with the Swastika on them and there are even more people who served in Vietnam who would not think twice about slicing the throat of somebody joking about Vietnam, and the Vietnam vets tend to have a higher percentage of "psychological" problems than those of previous wars. We have a nam vet near us who lives out in the woods. Nice guy, and we try and help him out with food and doing laundry and such, but the guy definitely isn't "right". Sadly a large percentage of the 'nam vets I have been around are like this.

Not trying to give you a hard time, and I am not threatening you in any way, but based on your site, you are not old enough to know what the times were like back then and you really do have to be careful about some topics like Vietnam especially in public and on forums and on sites. If somebody got ticked, it is so easy to track somebody down via the net.

Vietnam was something we never should have been in. Other than slaughtering North (and sometimes South) Vietnamese, the US accomplished nothing, except handing South Vietnam over like lambs for slaughter when we decided to start pulling out and the North Vietnamese tanks rolled into Saigon on April 30, '75 and South Vietnam was forced to surrender.

Vietnam broke America a part. 58,000 Americans died in the Vietnam war, and there are more than two millon vets of the VIetnam War and for these people, the wounds (emotional and physical) of the war will never heal.

Charlie Daniel says it best and this is a VERY real song:

quote:

Still in Saigon
(Dan Daley)
As Performed by the Charlie Daniels Band (1981)

Got on a plane in 'Frisco and got off in Vietnam
I walked into a different world, the past forever gone
I could've gone to Canada or I could have stayed in school
But I was brought up differently -- I couldn't break the rules

Thirteen months and fifteen days -- the last ones were the worst
One minute I kneel down and pray and the next I stand and curse
No place to run to where I did not feel that war
When I got home I stayed alone and checked behind each door
'Cause I'm...

CHORUS:
Still in Saigon,
Still in Saigon
I am still in Saigon
In my mind

The ground at home was covered in snow and I was covered with sweat
My younger brother calls me a killer and my daddy calls me a vet
Everybody says I'm someone else, that I'm sick and there's no cure
Damned if I know who I am -- there was only one place I was sure
When I was...

CHORUS

Every summer when it rains,
I smell the jungle, I hear the flames
I can't tell no one -- I feel ashamed
Afraid someday I'll go insane

That's been ten long years ago and time has gone on by
But now and then I catch myself, eyes searching through the sky
All the sounds from long ago will be forever in my head
Mingled with the wounded cries and the silence of the dead.
'Cause I'm...

CHORUS


quote:
We make Hippies mad.
If that is your goal, then yes you have succeeded. You did make this hippie mad. But I believe peace should be a way of life, not just a hippie slogan.

Pretty disgusting and offensive web site. Not exactly fitting to be linked off of a Christian programming board (IMHO). War games don't bother me, but the site is pretty disrespectful and that is definitely one war that shouldn't be poked fun at in use of a poor attempt at humorous language.

I lost family in WW2, I lost family in Korea, I lost family in Vietnam, I lost family and friends in the first Iraq war, and I just lost my brother Ian in Jan '04 in the current Iraq war. Click on my brother's name and scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at the pictures at the bottom of the page of my family. Nobody is laughing. Scroll down the the very bottom to Ians headstone. There is nothing humorus about any war.

[This message has been edited by Miami Brice (edited May 10, 2004).]

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I am in NO way joking about vietnam. I get really angry(I refrained from a worse word) at those "hippies" who disrespected all the soldiers who fought, bled and died in that foreign country.
as crazy as it sounds, I'm trying to portray our vietnam vets with a good light. as protectors of south vietnamese against invading Viet Cong army. granted, I didn't protray it that way.

You think I'm making a joke about our soldiers suffering and death!?!?!? you really think that!?!? I would NEVER do that. I'm sorry if I made it seem that way, and I will look into changing the post so it doesn't look like that.

and yes, Klumsy, those words did seem to show a bloodlust. however, this is probably because I never took graphic violence things seriously, due to the fact that it was never real to me. I've never connected graphical violence with really hurting someone. I watch violent movies and play violent games, but I still shudder at the thought of hitting someone.
and, yes, if it'd be violent, I would recommend that it would NOT be for children.


I guess I won't be posting this game in the showcase...
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Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited May 10, 2004).]