TallBill Member Posts: 298 From: St. Louis, MO Registered: 11-22-2002 |
In this story, Chuck Colson gives us a grave warning of coming discrimination against those of faith of the USA. There is deceptive legislation on the floor of the US House, passage of which could have grave consequences for all people of faith. We need prayer and action, and we need it now. ------------------ "...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High." |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: I hardly see having to work beside a homosexual as giving up your religious beliefs. Have we become so much like pharisees that we cannot even dine with "sinners?"
quote: Just by adding "sexual orientation" to the list, behind "race" and "gender," doesn't mean it will be blown to these proportions, while the same hasn't been done to the others. While I think a business should have the right to fire a person for any reason, just like a employee may quit for any reason (but seriously, it's just poor business), I don't think it's nearly as dangerous as he's stating. ------------------ |
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Matt Langley Member Posts: 247 From: Eugene, OR, USA Registered: 08-31-2006 |
I'd have to agree with ArchAngel on this one. I think the author is overreacting ------------------ |
samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
I think the issue is the aftermath of such a bill. It effectively says that, in this case, the law of the U.S. trumps the religious standard, thus reducing our religious freedoms slightly. It could set precedents that could erode our freedoms away totally. This so-called "hate crime" legislation could, potentially, usher in an age of humanism and persecution of the true church. Its not the current.. its the undertow. ------------------ |
zookey Member Posts: 1902 From: Great Falls, Montana, USA Registered: 04-28-2002 |
I second Matt's second-idation of Arch's post. We, above all people, should treat gays as equals since we intimately understand through Jesus that "God so loved the world that he sent his only son so that whoever believes in him won't die but have everlasting life"---I know I paraphrased it there but there isn't an astrik next to it with a footnote 'but we can exclude who we want without God's permission'----not to sound forceful but, if a gay person is applying to work for you, how do you know God is leading them there to try and use you as a tool to save him or her? Same actually goes for a hetero person tho hehe---fact is we all fall short of the glory of God and it is sad that people still look for reasons to put up a flag of 'I am holier than you' despite the fact that there are hetero people who claim to be Christian do things that are arguably more sexually perverse i.e. priests who rape kids---we need to ditch the attitude of that some sin is more hell worthy than others (LOL as much as my previous sentence sounds different, I know) and act with the love Jesus demonstrated when he saved the prostitute from getting stoned. Frankly, it is people like this dude why I have a hard time dealing with many mainstream Christians--because they take words like his and declare them gospel truth. ------------------ |
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TallBill Member Posts: 298 From: St. Louis, MO Registered: 11-22-2002 |
You don't get it, do you? This isn't at all about treating gays equally. It's about silencing Christians. It's about making it illegal to preach the whole Gospel. It's about getting the strength of the federal government behind the efforts of homosexual extremists to muzzle what they don't want people to hear. It's about showing the Truth the door and telling Him where to go. The one certainty in this matter is that, if he's got his Eyes on, this bill will get vetoed by the President—but it's not at all certain that he has got his Eyes on. We need prayer and we need action—and we need them now. ------------------ "...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High." |
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zookey Member Posts: 1902 From: Great Falls, Montana, USA Registered: 04-28-2002 |
quote: See that to me is nothing but fear mongering---if indeed it was true (which, from the looks of it--with my eyes---isn't) all it would take is a supreme court challenge to find it unconstitutional IF it infringed upon right to religion. But, your right to religion does NOT equal a right to discriminate someone on a job application based on sexual orientation--and I am saying this as a small business owner---heck, here in Montana it wouldn't be an issue because the way our laws work, when you fire someone you have to provide documentation as to why the firing took place--so they couldn't claim that if they wanted to unless it was actually the case. I have met several gay people through my 23 years and so far none have been desperate to silence me as a Christian---I think your 'angry Gays' like Rosie O'Donnel are few and far between---which is why they dominate press coverage because of their extremism---but history has consistently shown that when extremists get laws passed they get overturned in a few years---look at laws that used to support segregation and laws against video games being covered under first amendment rights. This to me seems like an attempt by this dude to get more popular with ultra-right-wing-leagalistic-christians by instigating fear and resentment---which is something people both left and right tend to resort to when general everyday facts don't support their views. ------------------ |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
So, it's our religious freedom to NOT work with gay people? ------------------ |
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
I think the real question is this. If the supposed aftermath of this is making the Gospel illegal to preach in general (it is already illegal in some circumstances), would that in any way affect how often we preach? Or even worse, maybe we won't even notice a difference. Brothers, persecution is *assured* to us. To be honest, people shouldn't be fired if they are homosexuals. I mean, we would hardly fire a man because he sleeps with his girlfriend, why should this be any different. If they sue... so what? No servant is greater than his master. If they hated Christ, they will hate us also. We are *assured* to be hated and some of us will be killed. But for me to die and live in Christ is gain. ------------------ |
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zookey Member Posts: 1902 From: Great Falls, Montana, USA Registered: 04-28-2002 |
True points--although I HIGHLY doubt this is life and death but still either way---that is the definition of turning the other cheek--when you think (whether it is actually true or not) someone might be out to get you you can of course be careful and protect yourself, but treat them with the dignity and respect that they might not be giving you---best case scenario you introduce someone to God through your actions worse case scenario you can atleast claim the moral high ground by not stooping to their level. ------------------ |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
i personally think it is dangerous. The whole hate crime laws are unneeded in my mind, because any Crime part of it is already covered by law. The problem is many of these things stiffles even sharing of opinions, including religious . People can sit around and give their opinions on anything, but the moment , you disagree with a pro-homosexual opinion you are discriminating, commiting a hate crime.. that is a problem.. I think we definately need to accept homosexuals as people, and love them as Christ does, but we need to maintain the freedom to express our religious beliefs on the matter in a responsible adult way, and equally as strong as they are allowed to express their belief that that kind of lifestyle is normal, healthy and to be celebrated. I remember sadly, a case of a Canadian cristian camp, that got sued by a homosexual agenda group for not allowing them to hire the camp, and the christian camp lost, and was forced to rent out their camping facilities to a homoxesual retreat. The thing about the whole homosexual agenda, that is the saddest isn't the homosexual issue , but really path it paves affecting all areas of public faith. As for firing somebody who cheats on his wife, or sleeps with his girlfriend. I'm of the opinion that your business is yours, and you should be able to hire and not hire whomever you want, and if you believe that Moral Character is important to the mission and value of your business then you should be able to discrimate by it. Thankfully I work at a christian ministry and a condition of our allowing to discriminate on religious reasons is that we have to, and thus we are able to poke into peoples worldview, to see if they align with our statement of faith, and we will fire somebody for cheating on their wife if neccisary, and there is no repentance. Sincerely, ------------------ |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
Well said Karl. That was the point I was trying to make as well. ------------------ |
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InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
People make too big a deal out of homosexuality. I don't care if it's homosexuality, or adulterous heterosexuality or drunkenness, or anger problems or what have you. A man who converts from homosexuality to heterosexuality will still burn in hell. An evolutionist who changes his views and "believes in God" will still perish... for even the demons believe and shudder! There is only one name under heaven by which men may be saved and that name is Christ! ------------------ |
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zookey Member Posts: 1902 From: Great Falls, Montana, USA Registered: 04-28-2002 |
quote: You know man 9 out of 10 times you and I don't agree at all, but for some reason we are in total agreement in this thread hehe! If that campground was private (I am judging by US law here--so Canada might be different) they are technically a business and, as long as the post a sign stating so, they can reserve the right to refuse service---however, if it was my place, I would let them come---it is a chance to treat them as equals and give them an open situation where they can comfortably ask questions about God. ------------------ |
MastaLlama Member Posts: 671 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
quote: Life in prison and death to the life you know...maybe? If actually tried and found guilty by this, our flawed system? Perhaps. |
