onfirepreacher Member Posts: 14 From: Bray, Wicklow, Ireland Registered: 09-14-2002 |
Hi All, I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here, but anyone here think we are rushing headlong into the end times?. I'm not asking people to give their opinions or theological interpertation of the book of Revelation, the visions of Daniel etc, but maybe some of the other signs and warnings we see listed in 1&2 Timothy etc. I know there probably are lots excited by the "Left Behind" stuff too, but I'm not going into that either!. What I am saying is, I see a rise in and normalisation of occultic practices, "once were good churches" going into error and accepting cults as valid expressions of faith, intolerance of solid doctrine or truth, false teachers preaching greed and very few seeing anything wrong with it, intolerance of Christians & their morality etc. Then there's the wars, rumors of wars and so on. I have been around the Christian scene a long time, have pastored churches in Europe and Asia, have preached the Gospel in over 18 different countries, and travel a lot. This view isn't just here in Ireland where I live, but everywhere I have been. I don't claim to know the time or day, but I am observing the times. Anyone else here feel/think the last decade is upon us? (that isn't a prophecy btw!) Maranatha Lord Jesus Onfirepreacher ------------------ |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
I don't worry too much about it. The end will come when God wants it to. Concentrating on our mission here on earth always has been, and always will be, important whether the end is near or not. I don't see that knowing, or even having a general idea, when the earth will end will really affect what I'm doing now. The Great Commission will always be our goal. Matthew 28:19-20, John 3 "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have left his house to be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him" -Luke 12:39-40 |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
lets look at a breif bit of matt 26quote: i see all this sort of thing, but i remember "the endi s still to come, its not upon us yet" quote: i expect pretty much global persecution of christians... i see this in some areas, and i can see in the interlectual arena, the thinking patterns being laid down for this to come about..
quote: the love of many has alread grown cold, but boy it can get a lot colder..
quote: this scripture here is the one i use mostly for end times... i do like lookin at revelations and signs etc of endtimes.. it is simple ,clear , and specifies the reason for history to continue... and this has yet to be down... so if i were a gambler i'd put a lot of money that jesus wouldn't come back tommorow (or this year)... but the gospel has been advancing in the last few years in the world amazingly (the non-western world that is)... SO i believe that when the gospel has been preached to all ethnic groups, because God's heart is that none would perish, then God's long suffering (its him who suffers more than us) will be over, the reason of history would be over, the purpose of the church on earth (to be salt and light etc, ambassadors of Christ) would be over, and the end will come.. ------------------ |
JerryRowe Member Posts: 21 From: Registered: 07-15-2002 |
Onfire, Not exactly...I think you're right in spotting the occult activity, but I think it's a ways off yet. God knows what depths man can sink to, and I don't think He's going to end everything until it gets approximately as bad as it was before the flood (which is the picture of the coming judgment). |
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SirGak Junior Member Posts: 7 From: Chicago Registered: 08-04-2002 |
I have been a Christian for a while, and have studied eschatology (future things) for pretty much most of those years. Many volumes have been written, sermons preached, etc, about the end-times. The biggest single flare-up in interest was in the twentieth century, especially the latter half when Hal Lindsey wrote the Late Great Planet Earth in the 1960s. I have seen many people come forth, and claim that this sign or that event meant Christ was coming back in a given year or at a certain time of the year. While I do not want to fall into date-setting (i.e. Jesus is returning yadda 20th of yadda yadda year AD), nevertheless, we are told Heb 10:24-25 "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching." We cannot know the exact day nor hour, but we have this assurance that the Day can be seen approaching. I liken it to a summer day when a storm is approaching. You see threatening clouds on the horizon. The air gets a certain charged feel to it, and then grows still, with paradoxical little fits of wind. Everything in you says the storm is about the break, but you can't really say exactly when the huge droplets are going to suddenly fall and the winds suddenly blow strongly. All you have is that gut feeling it's about to hit any moment now. The world events today very much feel like that approaching thunderstorm. The prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is held by many scholars to be a prophecy about the end-times when many Arabic nations headed up by Russia, all join together to attack and invade Israel (commonly referred to as the Russian Invasion Of Israel). When 9-11 happened, I felt it was the start of events that would lead up to Ez 38-39. Currently, Russia is our friend. Yet, the prophecy says Russia will attack Israel. I wonder what will happen to change that? To our friends who perhaps suggest that prophecy is all well and good, but imply it is not to be taken seriously, because, after all, we have the Great Commission to fulfill, please remember that about 1/4 of the entire Bible is prophecy. Surely God did not give prophecy just for us to ignore it. I came to Christ through reading The Late Great Planet Earth. Many people I know also came to Christ through the teaching and preaching of Bible prophecy, particularly concerning the End-Times. The End-Times are a part of the Great Commission, and a study in Bible Prophecy can help win souls to Jesus Christ. I studied Old Testament prophecies in order to witness to a Jewish man. I missed the man, but went to a Bible study that same evening. After the class, the Bible study teacher talked with a guest, a man who asked why he should believe the Bible. I sat down with them and shared the OT prophecies, and how they were fulfilled in Christ. In a short while, the man accepted Christ. Later, the Bible study teacher told me that evening's witness was the easest conversion they'd ever had. There is much profit is studying Bible prophecy, and it is not incompatible with the Great Commission, but in fact helps carry it out. |
RAN-SUN-SAN Member Posts: 27 From: Finland Registered: 10-09-2002 |
Just some thoughts! Christians have been talking about the end days in 1970 years now! EVERY generation has seen the "signs" explained in the Revelation... We must understand this, to understand our time, our feelings etc. There have UNFORTUNETLY been occultic activities, even before christianity, trough the medievel ages until our days! People have a feeling that everything was better before. But I ask, was it? We know our time, we forget our past, and itīs possible that if anyone of you would go back in time to the 19th centuary, and see all the spiritism that was going on, or see the Southern Baptist churches defend slavery... horrible! Even as early as in the letters in the New Testament, we can read about new teachings. WHY HAVE YOU SO EARLY DESERTED YOUR FAITH? is the question that is asked. We live in the world, and our mission is to be available for other humans, in their loneliness, pain etc. We should focus on loving each other. When Jesus comes isnīt in my view important. I hope itīs not within 2 years, so that I could finnish my game here on earth! |
SpiffyDinosaur Member Posts: 29 From: MO, USA Registered: 09-28-2002 |
One thing about now, technology is making the stuff in Revelations do-able. With the way society is changing, so that women act like men and men act like women. The times seem to be looking very much like the times of Noah. At least as they are said to have been in the Bible. The one thing that leads me to think, yes....we are nearing the end, is the way people don't accept truth. It dosen't matter if it has anything to do with Christianity or not, there is a growing number of people that just don't care. They want to do what they want to do. There dosen't have to be any reconciliation. Hmmmm a growing wicked and perverse generation ( reprobate minds ). I guess it comes from being lied to so much. How is a child suppose to deal with divorce, adultry, Etc. and still be able to say my parents love me? Spiffy |
Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Well im not going to read everything because ive gone over this sort of subject way to many flippen times. Anyways I think the end times are a great practical joke. Yes they are going to happen but for crying out load you people think about it to much. God said he was going to come back when no one exspected him back. Everyone thinks he is coming back any day now or today or the first second some bone head flyes a plane into a building or a y2k or a viruses is going to distroy all the cpus and then we will have chaos. So it cant happen yet. Besides it needs to be like in the days of Noah. I think we need to have more ritual sacrifices of our own kids and other stuff like that before God will return. We need people having sex in the middle of the mall and get other people to join in. This world isnt crapy enough if you ask me. I think we still have a lot more to see and get offended about. Keep a look out for some guy jumping off a skyscraper to land on you. PS: When He does come back I will be ready but till then I have no worries cuz I'm saved. Why fret over what needs to be and will be? |
MaxX Member Posts: 77 From: New Jersey, USA Registered: 07-30-2002 |
When the Antichrist comes, I 'll be waiting for him...with my sniper rifle. |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Personaly I think that the church itself will promot and fully suport the anti-christ. They will stand in the temple and clame that they are gods. That's just my own idea. Everyone seems to be going to this I am higher then anyone else. Then there is a new religion on the hurizen. It takes Christianity and tells you, you are God. If there is anyone I would suspect of playing a part of bringing the world to an end it would be them at this time. Still they arnt that big but they are growing and spreading the news that everyone is a little christ. Well life sure has some interesting things in it right now ~Angel~ |
Crptc_Prgrmr Member Posts: 169 From: Registered: 02-05-2002 |
I have to agree, the world can get much worse. One note though, Russia may not be the Communist country it was before, but its leadership is still strongly atheistic (see what Gorbechev has said). Remember their current President was part of the KGB. The only thing standing in the way of them and Israel could be the U.S. (ultimately in God's control), for now. We should be fighting for the hearts and minds of the people out there, and living our own lives for Christ, that is why we are here. I know most of us know this, but it's still the truth. "I press on toward the goal to win the prize. For God has called me heavenward." This world is not my home, I'm just'a pass'n through, my treasures are laid up somewhere beyond the blue, the angels beckon me from heaven's open doors, and I can't feel at home in this world anymore... ------------------ Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine... [This message has been edited by Crptc_Prgrmr (edited October 11, 2002).] |
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onfirepreacher Member Posts: 14 From: Bray, Wicklow, Ireland Registered: 09-14-2002 |
Hi's to Angel & Spiffy_Dinosaur, Yep those very thoughts you both mentioned were in my mind when I wrote the first part of the discussion. There is a rising up of technology and false teachers, especially those who "christianize" occult and new age teachings like "You are God (or a little god!), you create reality with the creative force of faith". The scary thing is, many christians don't see anything wrong with these teachings!. Their teachings deify man, lower God to someone who lives on a planet, make Jesus a created being, turn Him into satan on the cross, have Him going to hell and then being born again there. There are at least 5 very famous preachers teaching this stuff who appear regularly on Christian television, and who won't accept anyone trying to showing them the error of their teachings with the Scriptures. Any people I find following their teachings I warn against these preachers. I usually get a "Touch not God's annointed" reply. Could the christian church be that blind?. ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
I dont pray about and I trust that God will come back when He feels like it. I'm not trying to argue or make a point im just saying what I'm doing. I've been profiside over a lot and I havent quite compleated all that I am supost to do. This stuff takes time. I think the end could be about 30 years from now but by that time I will be 52 and I will have done much. Oh ya I was by your web page Preach. I saw the qustion at the bottom about web pages. The reason you get them sorta hits is because of what people search for with it. Christian lez sex is a common search. So are many others but that was an example. So people are looking for sex but because of the words/names they chose to use they end up with your site. Its the same way when you look for Christian Punk Music. You can end up with porn but you can also end up with people who love Christ and worship in a punk fation. Anyways just thought I might give some insite from someone who has spent a good deal of their life online. God Bless |
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RAN-SUN-SAN Member Posts: 27 From: Finland Registered: 10-09-2002 |
ONEFIREPREACHER! Hi! "You are God (or a little god!), you create reality with the creative force of faith". The scary thing is, many christians don't see anything wrong with these teachings!. I cannot understand how many christians donīt care about theese kind of teachings. Iīve even met a lot of them who call me a liar who critizise theese teachers, and many try to find some more "christian" explanations to theese statements. Well I was inside that, and God called me out! Even if I donīt like to "count" the day for the coming of Christ. I sometimes wonder if itīs theese "prophets" that will come with miracles and revelations and make many christians fall. |
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onfirepreacher Member Posts: 14 From: Bray, Wicklow, Ireland Registered: 09-14-2002 |
Hi Angel & Ran Sun San Yes, Ran Sun San I too have been in many churches and even in Bible college that junk is supposedly taught. I was a 2nd Pastor in one church and a guest speaker came out with that "you are little gods" teaching. I wanted to get up and walk out, but I knew it would cause a split in the church as many would follow me. What I did do after they finished was apologise to the congregation that the pastor who invited this speaker wasn't aware of the speakers unbiblical doctrines. Being a Pentecostal pastor I get lumped together with these false teachers which is a pain!. Now to Angel, Yes I decided to change my web-pages totally and even removed the question from the bottom. I believe some sicko was putting my web-page onto many places as a porn site. I hope you enjoyed the site anyway, anyone else want to visit?, it's well worth it! ------------------ |
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Crptc_Prgrmr Member Posts: 169 From: Registered: 02-05-2002 |
onfirepreacher, I was actually going to bring up abortion. This is sacrificing children, pure and simple. They always try to defend it by making it a "woman's choice", and bringing up convoluted situations. However, at least one article has come out saying that the increase of women becoming doctors is actually producing more doctors who are unwilling to kill. The pro-death side is trying to force the issue, but if the doctors are not willing to kill, these killings will not look so "civilized". This is still part of a bigger problem with our country, the indoctrination of evolution has had a direct impact on this as it has with so many aspects of society. ------------------ Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine... |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
about abortion, i am planning on creating a very graphic and probably controversial music video about it, because i believe that the visual is the only way our modern general 'think' having lost the ability to reason, and the media and everybody plays peoples emotions though that... i don't want to play emotions, but i want to communicate to them in a way they can understand, at least at for 1st base... anybody else very interested?? who here has seen or heard Dr. Bernard Nathanson speak? from http://www.silentscream.org/ so powerful and tragic... and also i heard an interview (maybe on focus on the family) from the lady from roe vs wade, who later became a christian... ------------------ |
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onfirepreacher Member Posts: 14 From: Bray, Wicklow, Ireland Registered: 09-14-2002 |
Hi Guys, Yes Abortion is a big issue here in Ireland. It's illegal, and the government wants to bring it in. They have so far had 4 referendums on it, and each time it has been rejected by the people at about 60/40. The government is wholy behind abortion, making it "the womans choice over her body", and ignoring the little miracle inside of her. They use the "what if she was raped" or "her life could be endangered" arguements again and again to scare people over to their way of thinking. They tried using very confusing wording in the ballot papers making the yes a no!. The government appear not to hear the people's choice and intend to have yet another referendum (sigh!). But it appears that europe's humanist manifesto will determine our laws here soon so we won't have a choice. So along with abortion will come euthenasia, religious tollerance laws, a single ruler over europe (probably Tony Blair) etc. etc. Anyone hear approaching hoofbeats yet? ------------------ |
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Gift Member Posts: 85 From: Palatine, IL, USA Registered: 02-11-2001 |
I always find it hard to understand why they always say "... the womans right to chose over her own body." since the child is genetically distinct from the womans body, and therefore not her own body. Genocide, something like 25 million dead in the US perpitrated on the poor and disinfranchized with subtile lies about them just harming society. I'm sure it will be the same with euthenasia, the lie being that the old are just driving up the cost of health care (a burden to society) and the quality of life it provides is not so great, so why not just die with some dignity, let me guess the ovens in germany will be repaired and fired up to dispose of all the dead bodies, and they will be building more ovens all over europe. Let alone telling the truth about islam being some sort of hate crime. If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. Love in Christ |
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SpiffyDinosaur Member Posts: 29 From: MO, USA Registered: 09-28-2002 |
for fear of sounding like I a pridful Ars! Here goes! I think abortion and this new definition of Tolerance, are the two single most dangerous elements of the falling away. With all the guilt being brought to bear on the folk that have had abortions from their own minds. I can see the need for people to redefine tolerance. How can someone hold to a firm conviction if they violate it them selvs. We know that the grace of JESUS covers all sin past, present and future. But to the mind of someone that dosen't believe/trust in Jesus; they need an out. If they deny the truth that GOD put inside each and every one of us, then, they can go there own miserable way. That brings in the new definition of Tolerance: I can have convictions for me, but, I can't impose my convictions upon you, or, I would be violating your right to your convictions. Well the big problem with that is, no recognition of the rule of LAW! How can law be enforced if there is no faith in the justice of the law? How can we impose societies laws on someone who has his own set of convictions? To me this is the way things are headed. The WACKO fringe is going to keep pushing out the normal folk, because no one wants to rock the boat. How can we rock the boat when we carry 100's of thousands of dollars in debt over our heads ( mostly by choice ). We are slaves to our creditors, because we believe in paying our debt. The worst is the personal debt ( credit cards ) with no property to secure the debt. I can see a time when people will start being thrown into jail until there debt is paid. I know someone ( from Tiwan ) who was under house arrest in China for two years; until he paid a debt that an American "business" man left him. Sorry If I sound pride full. I have opinions and I am not shy in expressing them. And I just re read this and cleaned up some stuff it does seem a little convoluted but it does still kinda work. Spiffy [This message has been edited by spiffydinosaur (edited November 07, 2002).] |
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Gift Member Posts: 85 From: Palatine, IL, USA Registered: 02-11-2001 |
Actually for ballance, before I became a Christian I supported abortion and euthenasia, I figured there was nothing wrong with murder. That when people turn 65 just kill em. But by the Grace of GOD He saved me, and changed my mind to now think murder is wrong. Its that supernatural power of GOD that does that. Praise GOD. Love in Christ |
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Gift Member Posts: 85 From: Palatine, IL, USA Registered: 02-11-2001 |
Actually for ballance, before I became a Christian I supported abortion and euthenasia, I figured there was nothing wrong with murder. That when people turn 65 just kill em. But by the Grace of GOD He saved me, and changed my mind to now think murder is wrong. Its that supernatural power of GOD that does that. Praise GOD. Love in Christ |
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Crptc_Prgrmr Member Posts: 169 From: Registered: 02-05-2002 |
That is because you are a new creation gift!  This is the big problem though. How can anyone have "inalienable rights" if there is no higher basis for it? Many Christians say you can't legislate morality. That's true to a point, but governments are here to defend the rights of their citizens, and sometimes the rights of citizens of other countries. Its time Christianity got muddied-up in politics again. I believe in protecting the un-born-woman's choice to life. ------------------ Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine... |
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onfirepreacher Member Posts: 14 From: Bray, Wicklow, Ireland Registered: 09-14-2002 |
Hi All Seems this 'End-Times' discussion has gone off on a tangent, being abortion, like someone pointed out in another discussion on how things go off on a tangent. Can I put in a little quip I once saw: _______________________________________ Abortion, How can a Moral Wrong be a Civil Right? _______________________________________ Good Huh?. Now can we bring this discussion back to the "End-Times"? BTW, Gift, I too was like you and supported Abortion, even marched for it until I got saved and became conscious of my sin. All I can say now is 2Corinthians 5:17 AMEN ------------------ |
Benscudetto Junior Member Posts: 2 From: WinterPark, FL, USA Registered: 10-27-2002 |
What I see in American culture in this time is similar to what you said about occult stuff going on in Ireland. Especially with people around my age. But generally here most people have sort of a lost sense of the church.. a falling away from this very traditional aspect of society. And many others dont have that. Many people have an entire "generation gap" from the church, which means there parents dont go, so they dont either. Because with increased knowledge there has been a much greater expansion of people that dont buy into church practices. So I believe were getting very close to the end, just because with information travelling as fast as it does.. All these things that are happening happen Exponentially. The formula is like this People stop going to church = less people have hope = no hope means more evil = more evil means one step closer to the true believers getting killed for their faith. I believe it 100%. |
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Benscudetto Junior Member Posts: 2 From: WinterPark, FL, USA Registered: 10-27-2002 |
Many people in my culture continue to do what they want and believe there is hope in that end.. ALL this generation is lacking is "the idol that speaketh". Literally, thats all it would take for the antichrist to stand up and send us all to prison. |