That made me so sick, last weekend I decided to produce my own to counter the message, since no one else had done so; the pro-life organizations have given the pro-choice cards a lot of media opposition, but no product opposition, not something of a corresponding nature.

So, I hurried to make cards and they are up at my new Action for America site:

http://www.ActionForAmerica.com/

Problem is, I'm not getting enough traffic. I have promoted shareware before, and it's not too hard because there are sites just waiting to put out your press release. I expected pro-life organizations to be glad to pass on this kind of news, but so far, out of 50 organizations and sites I contacted, only two small ones responded that they would tell people, and another larger one offered me paid advertising, which we are discussing and I may do if it works out on timing.

OK, marketing is not my strong point, plus since this is a response-type product, I couldn't prepare well in advance. I know not to expect too much, but I was kind of surprised that pro-life sites would be so hard to get to with free PR, especially since they are all concerned about the pro-choice cards. I originally thought free PR would do it. At the same time, there are few pro-life sites that have paid ads.

So, any suggestions? I need to get the word out soon. I'm also doing a search engine ad for "pro-life", but it looks like the results will be very modest.

If you know of something that might work out for this kind of situation, thanks for any advice!

Curry

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

I'm not pro abortion, but I am strongly anti Christians expecting the world to live by Christian morality. It is basically asking the world to be hypocritical, as well as deflecting attention from what we *should* be talking about. Not social issues, but the power of God.

quote:

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Originally posted by christian:
I'm not pro abortion, but I am strongly anti Christians expecting the world to live by Christian morality. It is basically asking the world to be hypocritical, as well as deflecting attention from what we *should* be talking about. Not social issues, but the power of God.

---

What's wrong with wanting the world to have Christian morals? I don't see why it would create it to be hypocritical? Just because some Christians are, don't paint everyone/everything with the same brush. It's like saying all goths are evil satanists, and all game players are crazed violent rampaging shootists.

What makes Curry wrong with what he's doing? He's putting cards out that promote pro-life/anti-abortion. If other companies are promoting pro-abortion, then what makes them right with what thier doing? That's why Curry is doing what he's doing, other companies are putting out pro-abortion cards, and he feels like he should put out anti-abortion cards.

[This message has been edited by Mack (edited December 05, 2002).]

Here's an easy, free way to promote the site. Join something like No More Hits and then just surf and the more sites you surf, the more people get sent to that site.

For this month, and maybe longer, I'm pointing all my hits to your site. I've set it at 50 a day, so you'll get a lot until my credits are gone. It's not a lot, but every little bit helps

If anyone else wants to sign up, do so with the link below, and I'll get credits for when you surf, and then more people will be directed to the site. Or don't, it doesn't matter to me

But if anyone is interested, the link is
http://www.nomorehits.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi?referrer=ascent

Hope this helps your site traffic pick up some.

-Ascent

quote:

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What's wrong with wanting the world to have Christian morals?

---

Nothing, except it means not believing the Bible, which says the world *won't*. Nothing wrong with standing up for what is right, but seeing as most of the so-called church does not live up to Bible standards, it seems all the more dumb to expect the world to. To put it another way, if someone you know who is not a Christian stops drinking because you explain to him that it's bad to drink because God says so, will he/she be saved ?

quote:

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I don't see why it would create it to be hypocritical?

---

Do you think that if people you work with stop swearing when you are around because you made a fuss about it never swear again ? Or do they have to act a certain way around you, instead of being themselves ? You're an Aussie, right ? Do you know who Fred Nile is ? He is the perfect example of the sort of thing I am thinking of.

quote:

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Just because some Christians are, don't paint everyone/everything with the same brush. It's like saying all goths are evil satanists, and all game players are crazed violent rampaging shootists.

---

I thought all game players were, I saw it on the news... :0) Seriously, not shooting for any generalisations here.

quote:

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What makes Curry wrong with what he's doing?

---

Not a single thing, except that both ways, it has nothing to do with Xmas. That was my point. He's welcome to pursue his opinion on this, and to see it as a black and white issue. But my point was more directed at those who started it, and linked pro-choice to Xmas cards, I don't see the connection.

quote:

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He's putting cards out that promote pro-life/anti-abortion. If other companies are promoting pro-abortion, then what makes them right with what thier doing? That's why Curry is doing what he's doing, other companies are putting out pro-abortion cards, and he feels like he should put out anti-abortion cards.

---

Yeah, I got all that. I'm sorry that I failed to make clear what *I* was trying to say, which was not at all that he was specifically wrong, or they were right.

quote:

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What does pro or anti abortion have to do with Xmas ? The whole thing seems ridiculous to me.

---

quote:

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Not so long ago, some guy decided to go to a clinic in Australia ( Melbourne, actually ) and shoot everyone.

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[quote]
I'm not pro abortion, but I am strongly anti Christians expecting the world to live by Christian morality.
[quote]
i agree and disagree with you.. God gave people free choice, i am under no allusion that us forcing laws and things onto people will make them better people or get them saved.. they make their own choices.. however the more people rebel against God and his ways, hurt themselves etc, the harder their hearts grow, and you don't want to just ignore them to the point that their hearts are so hard they would never be able to recieve the gospel..
We don't expect people to change, or expect them to behave a certian way.. we understand the nature of sin..
However, the church has a prophetic role, and that prophetic role is also similar to the old testament prophet.. Where they stand up for God, and for justice , even though we may get persecuted and killed for it.. the prophetic role included saying the truth for what it was, and calling for repentance, and warning of God's judgement (because of his longsuffering and great love). So often the church has just been so quitely, not rocking the boat.. but we are to stand out... and of course people will misinterpret us.. but we are to stand out for the truth, and call for repentance and change (though of course we can't expect people to change - the prophets often talked to people who they knew would never accept the message).. People have a choice to listen to us, or ignore us(or persecute us).. but we have warned them, and also given them a chance, and pointed to Jesus.. people can't really accept christian without confession of sin and repentance, and many have grown up in an enviroment where they aren't aware of what sin is..
I've seen and heard of so many people set free from the bondage of previous abortions , or of about to do abortions because some christians stood up in love, and declared the truth boldly...
i do think though going to base 1 (on an issue) is just the start.. it can be pointless if you don't end up pointing to Christ..
but remember all the crosscultural techniques jesus and say paul used when communicating the gospel, didn't start with Jesus, but started with an issue and something that was inportant to the hearer, and proceeded to the truth of the gospel, once a context the hearer could relate to had been established..

also i think that we are also decensitied to abortion, its not just about morality, but about justice..
lets say if the issue wasn't abortion but murder for the fun of it, and it was legalised, that if you feel like it you can murder somebody.

i doubt you'd be saying the same thing..

especially if you neighbour thought it would be fun to murder your children..

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

quote:

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To put it another way, if someone you know who is not a Christian stops drinking because you explain to him that it's bad to drink because God says so, will he/she be saved ?

---

It might not save them, but it may:
+) stop him/her from possbiliy becoming an alcholic
+) stop him/her from getting hurt if they do something while drunk
+) stop him/her from killing someone if they are drunk while driving
+) save them money

quote:

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Do you think that if people you work with stop swearing when you are around because you made a fuss about it never swear again ? Or do they have to act a certain way around you, instead of being themselves ? You're an Aussie, right ? Do you know who Fred Nile is ? He is the perfect example of the sort of thing I am thinking of.

---

If they did stop just because I'm around them that's the persons personal problem. I don't believe in slamming people with my beliefs and making them feel uncomfortable around me because of them, I like to take the calmer route. I work with several people who frequently swear and insult each other, I haven't told them to stop (only told them to settle down when they go on swearing frenzies), but because I don't swear when I talk, or slander people, it seems to have a positive effect on them and they are swearing less and less.

quote:

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Yeah, I got all that. I'm sorry that I failed to make clear what *I* was trying to say, which was not at all that he was specifically wrong, or they were right.

---

Sorry about that, I misread what you ment.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

quote:

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It might not save them, but it may:
+) stop him/her from possbiliy becoming an alcholic
+) stop him/her from getting hurt if they do something while drunk
+) stop him/her from killing someone if they are drunk while driving
+) save them money

---

Too true. However, the point is not that it's a bad message, but that it's not a *core* message to present to the unsaved, or to be confused with the Gospel. The effect without the cause will do good, the Law of the Lord is perfect, but without the cause, it will end in death.

quote:

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I don't believe in slamming people with my beliefs and making them feel uncomfortable around me because of them, I like to take the calmer route. I work with several people who frequently swear and insult each other, I haven't told them to stop (only told them to settle down when they go on swearing frenzies), but because I don't swear when I talk, or slander people, it seems to have a positive effect on them and they are swearing less and less.

---

And that is exactly my approach also.

quote:

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Sorry about that, I misread what you ment.

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The problem is clearly mine, if you did not hear me, then I did not say it right.

quote:

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Originally posted by Curry:

http://www.ActionForAmerica.com/

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Regarding your web site. Consider rewording things a bit to not sound like you are just retaliating.

Change

quote:

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We're proud to offer pro-life cards for the holidays. Are you disgusted by the cards which pro-abortion organizations are selling? Fight back for the rights of the unborn with cards from Action for America!

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If you do that type of thing throughout your page, perhaps you would get more receptive people.

Also, I didn't know cafestores were doing cards. My goodness, they are charging a lot for them too. I can make half a dozen for probably a third of that price.

Keep us posted on what you are going to do with your web site! Hey, an interesting product you can include and make money selling (as they have an affiliate program) is Inspired Idea's One Nation Under God: Christian Founders. See Inspired Idea for details. To sign up for the affiliate program, go to the home page and click on Affiliate login/join link in top left corner.

May the Lord bless all our efforts to further His Kingdom.
-Tim

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Called by God. The passioned plea of a father. The journey awaits at Jarod's Journey.

[This message has been edited by graceworks (edited December 06, 2002).]

Thanks for your suggestions. I don't want something too overbearing, but not too weak either--a lot of people are outraged over pro-choice promotions and I want to retain just a little bit of that.

BTW, Google sent me this:

Hello Curry,

[snip]

After reviewing your account, I have found that one or more of your ads or keywords does not meet our guidelines. These results are outlined in the report below.

[snip]

AD TEXT:

Pro-Life Christmas Cards
Counter pro-choice propaganda!
"Peace on Earth. For all."
www.ActionForAmerica.com/

Action taken: Suspended - Pending Revision
Issue(s): Unacceptable Product
~~~~~~~~~

SUGGESTIONS:
-> Content: At this time, Google policy does not permit the
advertisement of "websites that advocate against an individual, group, or organization" on our website. We also do not permit sites that sell these products to advertise on Google. As noted in our advertising terms and conditions, we reserve the right to exercise editorial discretion when it comes to the advertising we accept on our site.

--[me, Curry again]--

I'm not really that disappointed or surprised, in fact, it made me smile at how they try to sound so rational about it. Perhaps I could have toned down the rhetoric and avoided getting the attention of the PC police, but in the end, this how many people and groups and companies are toward Christian and conservative ideas and there's only so far you can tone down and stay legit.

There are other pro-life cards out there but the ones that are coming up in searches and the ones that are *allowed* to be there are really bland--nice, but definitely not political or activism in the most "active" sense.

Luckily, even with getting such a late start and a surprisingly unresponsive PR scene, it looks like I still may have a chance with that one organization's paid ads, and I'm thankful for that. God does provide the rest if we give it all we've got. If I get enough out there to make people think and create a ripple in the other direction from the wave that the pro-choice cards have tried to make, I'll be very satisfied and will have learned some valuable lessons for trying out next year!

:-)

Curry

I would say, consider an attitude of promoting the right thing (only), rather than (also) "hey, let's get the stupid bad guy idiots!"

-Ascent

However, in the case of Google, I actually got *more* clicks after I changed to that wording about countering the pro-choice campaign! It worked for the people, just not for the Google people. ;-)

I will explain about Google in case it helps someone to promote their software and hasn't tried pay-for-click. I didn't get much traffic from Google in this case but in other cases depending on the topic, it could work well; you have to target a specialized search audience, and they penalize you if the click rate drops and they serve ads without clicks. For example, if I advertised under "abortion" I'd get a bunch of traffic, but a low click rate because a lot of the searchers would not be pro-life, and without the targeting, a lot of people would click because of opposition or idle curiosity only and take away clicks from people who would really be interested.

So you have to go with the more targeted search like "pro-life", which is not nearly so high traffic, and even then it's just on the edge of acceptable click rate, where the system would rather you have something even more targeted like "abortion murder" or "pro-life cards", which would get higher percentage of clicks (making the managing system happy) but very low traffic.

It takes only five dollars to start with Google. You budget how many clicks you will allow, since each one costs money. It's fun to try the system anyway--it really monitors you and it's kind of like asking a really bossy friend to help you out! :-) It take fifty dollars at least to start with Overture, and I used them before when they had a different name and cheaper rate, so I'm not sure how easy it is to get started with them now, but they are the biggest.

I think for shareware, pay-per-sale affiliate programs are also a good way of marketing. Problem is, Commission Junction is the biggest program with the most advantage for publishers, but the fees for advertising are mind-blowing. There are cheaper alternatives, but they have fewer affiliates--affiliates like to go with the big one and combine all their earnings, because if they go with this and that little program, they can't build up enough in each one to get a check from the 25 dollar or higher minimum.

Curry

[This message has been edited by Curry (edited December 06, 2002).]

Thanks, I think it's good I mentioned my cards here because I needed that advice--I had to set up the page in a hurry and the words were a bit stronger than I realized--deep down I was pretty steamed and disgusted I guess! Still am--when people are being killed that's a natural feeling and I'm not ashamed of it, but altering the wording to be more positive was really a good thought and I appreciate it.

As far as Google with this ad, I'm not sure--once you get on the wrong side of the PC forces, I think you'd have to compromise *everything* and then some to appease some of them. Probably the best way is to avoid being so obvious upfront as to arouse their ire in the first place. I'm not sure if that's the case with them or not--I'll probably try and see, but I won't be at all surprised if with a more positive ad and the web pages toned down a bit, it's still not enough.

Thanks again,

Curry

Not as bad as I thought--although they did also disapprove some keywords like "abortion+murder" and "stop abortion" which to me seems like the most targeted for a strong pro-life product.

Well, I'll shut up about this OT topic so that people can talk more about programming. Thanks again for the suggestions.

Curry

I'm all out of hits now

Have you sold any cards?

The Google AdWords is really a good thing... one my clients is using it to drive traffic to their site... the great thing is, if you've got a little money, you can direct traffic *immediately* to your website, even if your site just went up (literally) yesterday.

Anyway, hope you've sold some. Update! Update!

-Ascent

The cards were simply too expensive, since they were print-on-demand. I realized this and made a print-your-own version that was cheaper, but my big mistake was, I added the download version as a link to the main page about printed cards rather than changing it to be just the opposite. So later, I realized hey, people are seeing the printed cards price and getting turned off right away without looking at the download version.

So, I changed it to promote mainly the download version, and if it had been earlier in the month, I think I would have had a chance to be successful then, but it was just too late--at the end of my paid advertising on a pro-life newsletter, and Google shut my ad down again.

<Sigh> So mistakes can really mess things up. (If everybody learns from mistakes, I should be a double-genius by now, but I'm not sure.) However, of course I'll try next year, having learned from said mistakes, and also will have the advantage of a very early start (probably coinciding with the start of the pro-choice promotions :-) ). Then I may offer the political version of the cards (to send to Bush and Congress) free for downloads and at-cost for printed cards, because I really want people to do that one. And I'll either do pre-printed rather than POD, or emphasize downloads and try to find a cheaper POD.

So, I did all I could, and that's in until next year, I'm going to work on other software and projects now. However, I am considering doing some pro-life software and maybe some pro-life non-Christmas greeting cards (birthday or other) in the meantime.

And yep--Google disapproved all my ads, even though they were really positive and tame. It's about the product and/or the product description. (Although I took the good advice here and revised description too.) So I guess Google only lets you be pro-life as long as there is absolutely nothing anti-anything, and evidently having a campaign that goes in the opposite direction of a pro-choice campaign by pro-choice organizations is unacceptable.

For non-controversial things, though, I agree, they are very convenient and a cheap and quick way to get started pulling in pretty targeted clicks to your site. If you can balance so that the ad gets mostly people who are really interested in buying, but still a good enough click-through rate to make the automatic Ad Manager (such a character) happy, then it would be a very good deal.

Curry